USSSA Base runner

[synergy40]

I believe I know the answer but not 100% sure. Runner on second, batter hits the ball tips the pitchers glove without any change in direction, but that diesnt matter, and hits runner off the bag. My answer is runner is out because the pitcher is not a fielder, has to touch one of the fielders behind the pitcher first for the runner not to be out. Dead ball, batter runner stays on first, correct???

Ump called it the way I called it, then later says it is a judgement call and he made the wrong call.

 

[beernbombs]

Live ball, unless umpire judges that the runner interfered with another fielder's play on the ball.

 

[synergy40]

Sec. 3. THE BALL IS DEAD AND NOT IN PLAY:

P. When a base runner is off a base and is hit with a fair-batted ball before the ball is touched by or passes through the infielders.

 

[SevenBizzos]

Once the ball comes in contact with any defensive player, the runner wouldn't be out. Your confusing that with a runner interference rule.

 

[synergy40]

I read this too, rule 8

BASE RUNNERS MUST RETURN TO THEIR BASES:

E. When an umpire or base runner is struck by a fair batted ball, before it
touches a fielder or passes any fielder other than the pitcher.

Whic combine with the other rule I quoted that a base runner is out when he gets hit with the batted ball.

 

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Not if the ball is deflected......see ASA 8-7-J-4. For this to be an out, the runner must intentionally interfere.

Joel

 

[MaverickAH]

I believe I know the answer but not 100% sure. Runner on second, batter hits the ball tips the pitchers glove without any change in direction, but that diesnt matter, and hits runner off the bag. My answer is runner is out because the pitcher is not a fielder, has to touch one of the fielders behind the pitcher first for the runner not to be out. Dead ball, batter runner stays on first, correct???

Ump called it the way I called it, then later says it is a judgement call and he made the wrong call.

Who told you that the pitcher is not an infielder?!?!?!

If the pitcher touched the ball, all bets are off on runner interference unless, in the judgment of the umpire, a runner purposely interferes with the ball. The runner interference rule applies only on an untouched ball. The rule does not say that the pitcher in not an infielder. It only excludes him from the equation if he doesn't touch the ball.

 

[beernbombs]

I think the fast pitch rules mention "before it passes or is touched by a fielder other than the pitcher" on a batted ball that hits a runner.

 

[Gulf Coast Blue]

An untouched batted ball. In the OP the ball was touched.

Joel

 

[beernbombs]

An untouched batted ball. In the OP the ball was touched.

Joel

Right. My response was directed towards Maverick's question about the pitcher not being an infielder. Just trying to shed some light on how or why a person might think that.

Who told you that the pitcher is not an infielder?!?!?!

If the pitcher touched the ball, all bets are off on runner interference unless, in the judgment of the umpire, a runner purposely interferes with the ball. The runner interference rule applies only on an untouched ball. The rule does not say that the pitcher in not an infielder. It only excludes him from the equation if he doesn't touch the ball.

 

[Gulf Coast Blue]

I knew that..........I just added a little bit of info.......

 

[joncon]

My answer is runner is out because the pitcher is not a fielder,

That is where you are confused. The pitcher is a fielder on a touched ball.

They probably excluded the pitcher on an untouched ball to avoid the ump having to make a technical decision of if/when it actually passed by the pitcher. 2'...4'....10' ?

 

[beernbombs]

That is an important piece of info to have when making that ruling.

 

[MaverickAH]

I think the fast pitch rules mention "before it passes or is touched by a fielder other than the pitcher" on a batted ball that hits a runner.

USSSA Rule Book:

Sec. 5. BASE RUNNERS ARE OUT under the following circumstances:

C. When a base runner is struck by a fair batted ball on fair ground while off his base and before it touches a fielder or passes a fielder.


Sec. 12. BASE RUNNERS ARE NOT OUT:

H. When a base runner is hit by a batted ball that has passed or touched a fielder.

Note: Nowhere does USSSA mention the word, "pitcher". ASA does, USSSA does not. In any case, it's implied. Also, it's one of those, two part rules, where you must have both parts in order to properly interpret the rule. The pitcher is excluded from Sec. 5. but not from Sec. 12.

 

[beernbombs]

USSSA Official Fastpitch Playing Rules
TWELVE EDITION

RULE 8. BASE RUNNING

Sec 18. Any runner is out when:

N. A fair-batted ball contacts him before it touches or passes an infielder, or
after it passes any infielder, except the pitcher,and the Umpire judges
that another infielder has a play.

 

[pompetti]

Definition

Here's where the judgement call comes in, did the pitcher have a chance to field the ball? From the definitions:

PITCHER / INFIELDER - The pitcher becomes an infielder when, after releasing the pitch
to the batter, he has a reasonable opportunity to field a batted ball.

But this is moot since the ball was touched by a defensive player, the ball is still live and in play.

Now if the pitcher didn't touch it, the umpire has to make a decision about "reasonable opportunity".

 

[Gulf Coast Blue]

USSSA Official Fastpitch Playing Rules
TWELVE EDITION

RULE 8. BASE RUNNING

Sec 18. Any runner is out when:

N. A fair-batted ball contacts him before it touches or passes an infielder, or
after it passes any infielder, except the pitcher,and the Umpire judges
that another infielder has a play.

That "or" becomes pretty important when interpreting this rule.

Joel