Bat Drag

[zls1camaro]

does improper bat drag drag apply to a slowpitch swing.... I like studying the swing and recently became aware of bat drag in the baseball swing. Not to be confused with lag...

 

[BTW300]

I think it would if your front shoulder flys open and your bat slices through the zone.

 

[zls1camaro]

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0ceBKlRxdE[/ame]. bat drag analysis vid

 

[dponder]

Its less of a concern in slowpitch, you dont need to worry about 90 mph fastballs.

 

[justwhippin]

Its less of a concern in slowpitch, you dont need to worry about 90 mph fastballs.

Bat drag is bat drag in either sport.... robs batspeed when you first drag the bat and not turn it behind your back shoulder. Letting the back elbow come down and under the arm pit collapses your backside and kills power

 

[Triple7]

Yes. It will reduce wrist snap and lead to less speed through the zone.

 

[dponder]

But still less of a concern. It can be overcome much more easily. I have seen big hitters with bat drag. Strength and the equipment in todays game make it less of an issue.

On a side note, maybe we should define bat drag.

 

[zls1camaro]

see the video - essentially letting the back elbow get drop, in front of the hands - causing the bat to drop and loop -- and cast in a way.

justwhippen gives a good explanation!

 

[zls1camaro]

heres another "what is bat drag" - love you tube.

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aRahHnADRYs[/ame]

 

[dponder]

Bat drag is when the back elbow leads the hands. The rest of what you describe can occur with or without drag. Im not sure what justwhippin is referring to because the elbow should come down against the body. I must not be understanding his description.

 

[justwhippin]

Bat drag is when the back elbow leads the hands. The rest of what you describe can occur with or without drag. Im not sure what justwhippin is referring to because the elbow should come down against the body. I must not be understanding his description.

Im saying if you back elbow drops past your back hip and past your hands causing your elbows to get real close together which causes the bat head to just drop and drag. The back elbow should drop to your side in the slot but not under your armpit and lead your hands early in the swing

 

[dponder]

Im saying if you back elbow drops past your back hip and past your hands causing your elbows to get real close together which causes the bat head to just drop and drag. The back elbow should drop to your side in the slot but not under your armpit and lead your hands early in the swing

How does the elbow come down to your side but not be under the armpit? I dont understand that reference. Are you saying under the armpit and pushed forward are synonomous? That makes sense if that is what you are saying.

 

[justwhippin]

Im saying early in the swing... the back elbow just drops under and does not create resistance by staying back and rotating with the lower body. Look at the vid posted and see how the back elbow dropped under ahead of the hands causing the bat just to drop and drag. As you turn for maximum power the elbows and forearms should maintain the same distance apart to stay connected to the lower half. I have also heard this being called rotate the triangle keeping maximum separation and staying connected to the lower half

 

[dponder]

Looks like we agree on what bat drag is.

 

[zls1camaro]

gents -- I believe you both are describing the same thing -- excessive drag or premature drag starts early with an elbow drop. Yes agreed, eventually the elbow must come to the body -- but better late, than early. Check out the first vid - Trout keeps the elbow up and wrist angled - whereas the prep hitter quickly gets the elbows in front of the hands with a flat wrist.

So how much drag - early elbow drop - do our game's biggest hitters have? Woldyk, Hall, Crine, others? Any?

 

[BruceinGa]

Interesting! Over the past 4 or 5 years I have lost some distance but I have attributed it to aging (I'm now 65). After watching these videos I realize that I start with my back elbow under my hands. Years ago I have always maintained both elbows the same distance from the ground and out, away from my body. Next bp session I'll go back to elbows out with the correct angle at my bottom wrist. I'll report back.
Thanks for posting!

 

[IDP]

how essential is this to the slowpitch swing though? in all of the swing makeover video series ive seen it seems like they teach intentionally dropping the elbow early, then the hands get in front to drag the bat on a level plane until the hips torque and wrists snap. i'm not saying their method is right or wrong, but i think there will always be some key differences between a great slowpitch swing and a great baseball swing.

fast forward to about 2:08
[ame]http://youtu.be/LsYNY6IPdFg?t=2m9s[/ame]

 

[BruceinGa]

Bret and Bogie can both mash. I'm torn between their teaching and the baseball videos.

 

[justwhippin]

Bogie imo kinda teaches a half swing.... he just starts in the down postion and swings up. Im not a big fan of this swing but it is simple if your looking for a easy fix but i don't think this style will ever get full power to all fields from starting from the down/slot postion. Ask yourself do you see any of the major guys swing like this??? answer is no. Bogie does a good job teaching and has lots of passion but i just don't think it's a top level way to hit

 

[BruceinGa]

Bogie imo kinda teaches a half swing.... he just starts in the down postion and swings up. Im not a big fan of this swing but it is simple if your looking for a easy fix but i don't think this style will ever get full power to all fields from starting from the down/slot postion. Ask yourself do you see any of the major guys swing like this??? answer is no. Bogie does a good job teaching and has lots of passion but i just don't think it's a top level way to hit

I see your point of view.

 

[dponder]

Comparing baseball and softball processes is going to be frustrating. Some similarities, some glaring differences. Bat drag requires contact out in front of the body for optimal results. This isnt productive in baseball because you lose time and adjustability, making the hitter susceptible to getting fooled by off speed due to early committment. The same isnt true for softball. JMO.

 

[BruceinGa]

Bat drag requires contact out in front of the body for optimal results.

I've always been a proponent of this, trying to hit the ball when it is still is in front of the front foot.

 

[Jomatty]

When I saw the bat drag video the swing makeover was the first thing that came to mind...what I've seen in those videos is different in both elbows and wrists than the baseball video.

 

[zls1camaro]

Perhaps best to differentiate between drag and lag? We are all defining drag as an undesirable result of dropping that back elbow at the start of the swing, elbow getting ahead of the hands. Whereas lag is always a good thing, essentially maintaing the top wrist angle, releasing the barrel late in the swing for maximum snap and power. It is possible to drag ang lag but the results are obviously poor due to poor contact. For best results no drag, maximum lag, yes?

 

[zls1camaro]

Also this Swing Makeover swing does not work for me - and it was actually the basis for my struggles this season (pop ups and grounders) and my discovering this drag issue recently. Once I reverted to a more traditional swing I started hitting it solid again. Serious regret, except for learning about drag. My swing really wasn't broken, don't know why I tried to fix it!

Like golf, there are always people finding new ways to teach, reengineer and retool the swing -- and "market" their ideas and products. Nothing against them. Give them credit for thinking outside the box.

I have to rely on what I see in the swings of the best names in our sport -- they tend to be more traditional with time tested techniques, in retrospect.

 

[Ballisttic]

I have been trying to figure out what makes the most powerful swing and i know it starts from the ground up. so lets say your hips are opening, from that point the biggest thing in the swing for making power is the abilty to lock the lead arm out and coil your body. doing that tends to keep your back elbow in the correct spot and your swing locked to the torso twist but to hit really far you have to snap the wrist hard right at ball contact it makes a huge difference in distance. atleast thats what i get from all these vids out there.

 

[dponder]

I've always been a proponent of this, trying to hit the ball when it is still is in front of the front foot.

This is ok in softball but not baseball. I still prefer making contact closer to body. The further out front you make contact, the more you are pushing the bat which requires greater strength.

Perhaps best to differentiate between drag and lag? We are all defining drag as an undesirable result of dropping that back elbow at the start of the swing, elbow getting ahead of the hands. Whereas lag is always a good thing, essentially maintaing the top wrist angle, releasing the barrel late in the swing for maximum snap and power. It is possible to drag ang lag but the results are obviously poor due to poor contact. For best results no drag, maximum lag, yes?

I understand the difference and would agree for baseball. Bat drag can still be used with good result. It comes in varrying degrees. I have seen guys hit 400+ with drag in their swings. Drag from baseball is a result of a problem upstream. Usually poor load/coil.

 

[Ballisttic]

yes you are correct certain people can smash a ball no matter how they swing being a beast makes that happen, but good mechanics makes the small people smash the ball too and there are the people like me who cant hit far no matter what mechanics i use

 

[dponder]

I have been trying to figure out what makes the most powerful swing and i know it starts from the ground up. so lets say your hips are opening, from that point the biggest thing in the swing for making power is the abilty to lock the lead arm out and coil your body. doing that tends to keep your back elbow in the correct spot and your swing locked to the torso twist but to hit really far you have to snap the wrist hard right at ball contact it makes a huge difference in distance. atleast thats what i get from all these vids out there.

Its not just opening the hips, it is getting maximum load, coil, weight transfer, and rotation in sequence. Just opening the hips generally creates spinning swings which aren't powerful. If you get the legs right, you dont have to focus on the upper body all that much. It follows because it has to.

 

[dponder]

yes you are correct certain people can smash a ball no matter how they swing being a beast makes that happen, but good mechanics makes the small people smash the ball too and there are the people like me who cant hit far no matter what mechanics i use

Have a video?