USSSA Call anyone?

[duke1985]

Whats the proper call? A runner is standing on first and the ball hits him in the back while he is still on the base. The ball lands in foul territory before it crosses the bag. Since the runner is on the bag and hurt from the shot, the first basemen touches the bag and tags the runner thats still in shock. Is that a double play and if so why? If not what would be the ruling?

 

[NCASAUmp]

Whats the proper call? A runner is standing on first and the ball hits him in the back while he is still on the base. The ball lands in foul territory before it crosses the bag. Since the runner is on the bag and hurt from the shot, the first basemen touches the bag and tags the runner thats still in shock. Is that a double play and if so why? If not what would be the ruling?

In ASA, if it hadn't passed a fielder (excluding the pitcher), then it's a dead ball, and the batter-runner is awarded first base. If it already passed a fielder, then it's a live ball.

It also depends on whether or not the ball was first contacted in fair or foul territory. If he's standing on the base, it was probably fair, but that's not 100% guaranteed. It's where the ball is, not the fielder or runner. If it's contacted in foul territory, then it's just a foul ball.

In USSSA, it doesn't appear that it matters whether or not it passes a fielder. If they're on the base and get hit with a fair batted ball, the ball is live, regardless of the positioning of the fielders.

 

[bb666b77]

well since he touched the base first than the runner(as long as he was still on the base),1 out-batter.runner is still safe since base was touched first.

now this is all said with the thought that it is still a live ball,like ump says ASA its a dead ball depending.

 

[NCASAUmp]

well since he touched the base first than the runner(as long as he was still on the base),1 out-batter.runner is still safe since base was touched first.

now this is all said with the thought that it is still a live ball,like ump says ASA its a dead ball depending.

Missed the second part of his question.

Yep, I second this motion. One out, and a hurt runner is still on first.

 

[duke1985]

Thanks this didnt effect our game but it was funny to watch. Especially when the guy doing the tagging explained to the ump why it should be a double play. He argued that since he got the force and then tagged the runner they were both out. But i get it since the force is the out, the runner doesnt have to advance, right?

 

[BretMan]

This is one of those that depends on which sanctioning body your game is being played under.

In all of them, a runner who is hit with a fair batted ball while in contact with a base is not out- unless he did something to intentionally interfere with the ball (like reach up and knock it down, when the ball would not have otherwise contacted him).

As a side note, this is totally different than in baseball, where the base offers no protection to a runner being hit by a batted ball.

That's the easy part. Now we'll throw a wrench into the ruling...

As already noted, in ASA softball the ball may become dead if it has not yet passed an infielder (other than the pitcher). In this case, the batter is awarded first base and any other runners would advance only if forced. If the ball has passed an infielder, then it remains live.

In USSSA, a fair batted ball that hits a runner in contact with the base always remains live.

In NSA, a fair batted ball that hits a runner in contact with the base is always automatically dead!

There you have three different sanctioning bodies and three completely different rules to cover the exact same play!

 

[johnsonrod]

ASA

what if you have a runner on 3rd base and a batter who is a dead pull hitter. the runner, in an attempt to 'distract' the 3rd baseman, stands with his right foot on 3rd and his left foot towards 2nd base, thus his whole body is in fair territory. the batter hits a ball right down the line and it hits the runner who had very little time to move, would there be any reason to call the runner out since they intentionally took a position to "interfere" with the 3rd baseman???

 

[Nexx]

Its not a double play. It would be like getting caught in a run down and the runner advancing to the next bag and the other runner returning to the bag. One is out and the other is safe. As for the ruling on live vs dead ball, probably going to be a judgment call by the ump regardless of sanction because we all know that they dont always do what the rules say.

 

[yg#9]

I was hit one time while standing on 3rd base. The ball hit me in fair territory, the 3b picks up ball and throws batter out at first and then they call me out. We fought and argued like crazy but they didn't change the call.

 

[BretMan]

ASA

what if you have a runner on 3rd base and a batter who is a dead pull hitter. the runner, in an attempt to 'distract' the 3rd baseman, stands with his right foot on 3rd and his left foot towards 2nd base, thus his whole body is in fair territory. the batter hits a ball right down the line and it hits the runner who had very little time to move, would there be any reason to call the runner out since they intentionally took a position to "interfere" with the 3rd baseman???

If the runner was standing like that BEFORE the pitch was thrown or hit, then I have nothing. There isn't any rule about which direction a runner has to be facing or pointed while he is in contact with the base, so long as he maintains contact with the base.

If he shifted over in front of the fielder AFTER the ball was hit, and I judged that to be an intentional attempt to interfere with the ball, then I'd have an out for interference. His "late shift" might have been part of his attempt to avoid being hit. In that case, I would not call interference.

 

[BretMan]

I was hit one time while standing on 3rd base. The ball hit me in fair territory, the 3b picks up ball and throws batter out at first and then they call me out. We fought and argued like crazy but they didn't change the call.

Instead of "fighting and arguing", your team's coach should have filed a protest. This is a misiterpretation of a playing rule, 100% protestable and winnable.

It seems that few coaches know or understand the official protest process. There is an entire section of the rule book that describes how this is handled. No matter how much you argue, fight, scream or yell, it's not considered an official protest until you follow that procedure.

 

[WISEGUY18]

..."ouch"...