Other Collision at 2b

[vlcmstnaz]

Church league. Skill levels of players vary greatly from one to the next. Mostly ASA rules, but some modifications (ie. unlimited use of pinch runners).

2 outs, runner on first (inexperienced player). Grounder hit to SS. SS attempts to make unassisted out at 2b and runs through the bag. Base runner (coming from first) realizes collision is coming and half slides / half ducks. SS makes out 3, but goes down pretty hard.

In this situation, who is at fault? SS was ejected for attempting to instigate a fight (yes, at a church game), insisting that the runner should have slid / gotten out of the way. Runner was not interfering with a double play situation and shouldn't just assume he will be out and stop his progress towards 2b, but how much responsibility falls on each player (runner and SS) to avoid the collision at 2b?

Thanks for your help guys.

 

[eddieq]

Caveat: Would have to see it...

From what you describe, you have a fielder, with the ball making a play. In that situation, it is the responsibility of the runner to avoid being in his way. He can go around, slide, stop, etc., but he cannot remain upright and crash into the fielder. The penalty for doing so is interference. The ball is dead, the runner is out and everyone else returns. Again, from what you describe, that's not what happened here. The runner attempted to slide and avoid the fielder. Sure there was contact and, if it prevented a play could be ruled interference but you said he got the out. Realistically, I have nothing on this as he got the out to end the half inning.

You also said that the SS attempted to instigate a fight and was ejected. That is also correct. Fighting is not tolerated and if you don't nip it in the bud, it will only escalate.

Remember - interference and/or obstruction do not require contact and not all contact is interference/obstruction.

 

[FatBoy28]

Had to be there but this sounds like more of a baserunning/fielding mechanics type of play than an actual rule. On a force out where there is no DP to be made, both players should be able to easily avoid a collision. How close was the play?

Everyone has different ideas of what "Church League" means. There are plenty of DBs and I've seen plenty of hard colissions and a few near fights and even one team "ejecting" one of its own players.

 

[vlcmstnaz]

EDDIEQ, looks like you are understanding the situation correctly.

I don't think the runner should just give up and just surrender the out. It was a close play and I appreciate the hustle by both players. But, the runner did not execute his slide well. It was late and more of a crouch. And, contact was ultimately made between runner and SS (approaching 2b from opposite directions). Replaying the situation in my head, the runner was likely to get trampled no matter his approach to 2b. His half slide / half crouch was a self-defense-like, protective approach. Had he gotten all the way down in a traditional slide, he would likely have been stomped on by the SS running through the bag. Watching the angles of each player (SS and runner) approaching the bag, I was certain it was not going to end well.

Basically, the question is, what is a runner supposed to do in this situation? Concede the out on a close play to avoid contact? Slide and take the cleating that follows?

 

[vlcmstnaz]

Had to be there but this sounds like more of a baserunning/fielding mechanics type of play than an actual rule. On a force out where there is no DP to be made, both players should be able to easily avoid a collision. How close was the play?

I think it was more of this^^^

The SS approach was 180* opposite that of the runner. The continuation of the SS' progress after touching 2b was the same as the runners approach / almost slide. When no play at 1b is necessary following the out, should the SS not redirect his course slightly after touching 2b, even though it is primarily the runners responsibility to avoid interference?

 

[eddieq]

It's the runner's responsibility to avoid interfering (i.e. colliding in this case) with the fielder with the ball. He can stop, go around, slide, fall to the ground and roll into a fetal position or, if not a muggle, apparate to Diagon Alley. Remaining upright and crashing into the defender with the ball is not one of his options. It seems like he tried to slide, a crappy slide it may have been, but he tried. Since there was no interference there (3 outs recorded, no other opportunity for a play), I have nothing (again, not having seen the play).

Make your situation a 0 out or 1 out situation. Same thing - SS gets the ball, charges the bag to touch it and plans to throw out the batter-runner. The runner comes in, executes a slide, collides with the fielder and causes the throw to go offline. I do have interference there. Just because he slid, doesn't absolve him from accidentally interfering. Of course, now you have interference by a retired runner and the penalty is different (runner closest to home is now out).

The runner can't go poof, but he also can't interfere with the defense.

 

[Joker]

sometimes **** happens and there is nothing you can do

 

[vlcmstnaz]

sometimes **** happens and there is nothing you can do

Guys, thanks for the help. Joker, I think this is one of those situations. **** happens.

 

[Joker]

actually the one thing you can do is not be a douche and try to fight the guy

 

[vlcmstnaz]

^^^after the play, SS gets to his feet and drills the runner on the ground with the ball from like 3 feet away. a real **** move.

 

[BretMan]

Dear Redneck Church League Shortstop,

Where would you expect a runner to be who is legally advancing the bases and running directly at a base, other than in the baseline and near the base?

No, there is nothing in the rules that requires a runner to "get out of your way" or "give themselves up" to give you a clear path to run through the base.

Sometimes...stuff happens. Two players are racing to occupy the same 17" square spot on the field and sometimes they get at the same spot at the same time. It doesn't necessarily mean it's a rule violation or any sort of penalty.

Fighting over this? I hope that you get a good long multiple-game suspension.

 

[vlcmstnaz]

^^^Their team was eliminated from the tournament by losing this game (it wasn't really a close game either). So, no additional suspensions will be necessary.

In the game, the out was awarded ending the inning. No interference call was made against the runner. Runner (who did not take the bate and retaliate) was not ejected. SS was ejected. Time ran out an inning later.

I own more than 1 softball bat and was therefore deemed most knowledgeable about the game and asked to coordinate the tournament. It is not something I am qualified for or would volunteer for. But, am doing the best I can (5 weeks of round robin play, establishing rankings for 3 week double elimination tournament). I think the situation was handled properly by the umpire. Both dugouts remained surprisingly cool following the incident and no other ejections were necessary.

 

[FatBoy28]

I own more than 1 softball bat and was therefore deemed most knowledgeable about the game.

Good one

If the SS fielded the ball himself and is making the unassisted play at 2B then the collission is easily avoidable by the SS. Unless the collission is intentional, then the reaction is worsde than the "crime".

 

[BigSam]

^^^after the play, SS gets to his feet and drills the runner on the ground with the ball from like 3 feet away. a real **** move.

This clown left the field with all his teeth? If I'm the runner there, or any of his teammates this game is over due to us needing the remaining time for a proper beatdown. Hell if I'm the umpire it would be all I could do to not knock that SS out. Here are all of the situations in life where it is okay to throw a ball at someone laying on the ground: ___________________

:wtf2:

 

[Illegal pitcher]

Here are all of the situations in life where it is okay to throw a ball at someone laying on the ground: ___________________

Player on the ground pulls out a gun and says "die motherf*****!"

Did you forget that one?