NSA Courtesy runner/injury.

[Sugar]

Ok... I'll preface this thread by saying that I was just watching the game in which the following situation happened. It's kind of a long story and I don't want to leave anything out. The team in the field was saying after the play that the umpire made the wrong call. I'm curious to know what the right call is.

One out in the inning, one runner on at 1st, the batter hits the ball to the outfield. Runner goes first to third and the outfielder throws to 3rd, runner called out on the tag. On the throw to 3rd the batter goes to second. Third baseman throws to 2nd and hits the batter in the leg with the throw. The batting team asks for a courtesy runner. Courtesy runner comes on the field and stands on second base. Now two outs, one runner on at 2nd. The team in the field wants to intentionally walk the next batter. Now runners on 1st and 2nd. They want to also walk the next batter. Now bases loaded. No pitches were thrown to either batter. The next batter is the courtesy runner, who is now on 3rd. After some discussion between both teams, the umpire behind the plate has a conference with the field umpire and they let the original batter come back in for the courtesy runner. I couldn't make out everything the home plate umpire was saying but he did keep saying "it's a dead ball" and I think it had something to do with no pitches being thrown to the next two batters. The team batting was saying the original batter/runner could re-enter because he left due to injury. Nothing was ever said about injury when he left the field, they said "courtesy runner". Obviously the team in the field was not happy because they thought the courtesy runner should have been an out, due to being on base/not being able to bat.

What's the call?

 

[jsam21238]

A Courtesy Runner (which is not used as a substitute in the line-up) may be used once per inning. The Courtesy Runner can be any player on the team roster who is present, eligible and not been ejected and may be used once per inning per team. The courtesy runner will be entered into the game by the Head Coach through the home plate umpire before play resumes. Once play resumes by the umpire declaring play ball; that courtesy runner will be officially entered. If that courtesy runner comes to bat while on base, it is an out. The courtesy runner “MAY NOT” under any circumstances be substituted for. The defensive team “MAY” walk to get to the vacated spot in the line up. Rule 7 Section 3 is not in effect for this rule.


So what that says is once the courtesy runner is in he is in no matter what. In the situation described, this couldn't have been a substitution/re-entry because the person who was placed on base was already in the line up. It could only have a courtesy runner. An out should have been declared.

 

[Sugar]

A Courtesy Runner (which is not used as a substitute in the line-up) may be used once per inning. The Courtesy Runner can be any player on the team roster who is present, eligible and not been ejected and may be used once per inning per team. The courtesy runner will be entered into the game by the Head Coach through the home plate umpire before play resumes. Once play resumes by the umpire declaring play ball; that courtesy runner will be officially entered. If that courtesy runner comes to bat while on base, it is an out. The courtesy runner “MAY NOT” under any circumstances be substituted for. The defensive team “MAY” walk to get to the vacated spot in the line up. Rule 7 Section 3 is not in effect for this rule.


So what that says is once the courtesy runner is in he is in no matter what.

That's what I thought. Now... is there a different ruling if the runner was entered for an "injury"? Even though they specifically said "courtesy runner", I'm just wondering if there's a different call. The runner that came in was not a sub, as he was obviously already in the batting line up.

 

[SevenBizzos]

That's a courtesy runner. That player entering for an injury to the original runner doesn't matter. Out.

 

[jsam21238]

That's what I thought. Now... is there a different ruling if the runner was entered for an "injury"? Even though they specifically said "courtesy runner", I'm just wondering if there's a different call. The runner that came in was not a sub, as he was obviously already in the batting line up.

Nope... no difference. Thats why you need subs.

 

[EdFred]

Nope... no difference. Thats why you need subs.

Or just don't put a runner in who is due to be up.

 

[spos21ram]

That would be an out in our league. If the courtesy runner's spot in the order comes up and he's on base then his spot is an out.

 

[WhiteBrow24]

why not just have the last out go run? Isn't that what (well I thought 100% of teams) I guess 99% of teams do?

 

[eyerolleddapiec]

why not just have the last out go run? Isn't that what (well I thought 100% of teams) I guess 99% of teams do?

Not if the last out is a 300lbs did, and the guy who is 2 batters out runs a 4.2 40...

 

[WhiteBrow24]

Not if the last out is a 300lbs did, and the guy who is 2 batters out runs a 4.2 40...

its league...

 

[spos21ram]

why not just have the last out go run? Isn't that what (well I thought 100% of teams) I guess 99% of teams do?

This is how our courtesy runner works.

Last BATTED out, not last out. We do last batted out because if a batter was put out on a fielder's choice, then that runner will most likely be on base when the courtesy runner is needed. If you use a courtesy runner and that player's spot comes up in the order while he is on base then that spot is an out. This has never happened in our league by the way.

Only time this rule get's a little wacky is if a team starts an inning with like 5 straight hits without recording an out and then they need a courtesy runner. In this instance there is a good chance that courtesy runner would be on base when his spot is coming up. In this instance we learned to just skip that person and use the next out. Last year my league did not skip the out so the team was forced to have that guy run unless of course you have a sub on the bench.

 

[SevenBizzos]

This is how our courtesy runner works.

Last BATTED out, not last out. We do last batted out because if a batter was put out on a fielder's choice, then that runner will most likely be on base when the courtesy runner is needed. If you use a courtesy runner and that player's spot comes up in the order while he is on base then that spot is an out. This has never happened in our league by the way.

Only time this rule get's a little wacky is if a team starts an inning with like 5 straight hits without recording an out and then they need a courtesy runner. In this instance there is a good chance that courtesy runner would be on base when his spot is coming up. In this instance we learned to just skip that person and use the next out. Last year my league did not skip the out so the team was forced to have that guy run unless of course you have a sub on the bench.

He's in an NSA league which, I would assume, uses NSA courtesy runner rules.

 

[joncon]

He is out but it was a super douche move by the offense.


You injure the runner with a thrown ball and this is how you say "sorry"?

If I was the ump, I'd call executive privilege and no out.

Here, the leagues always allow one courtesy runner (last out) but there are no penalties in place for using someone else. If the last out is not available, someone else like last across will run. Also, one team will ask for an additional runner (due to injuries) and no one has ever said no.

 

[spos21ram]

He's in an NSA league which, I would assume, uses NSA courtesy runner rules.

I'm just stating what our league rule is. We are a USSSA league, but USSSA book rule doesn't even use courtesy runners. I wasn't quoting an association.

 

[Hebrew Hacker]

He is out but it was a super douche move by the offense.


You injure the runner with a thrown ball and this is how you say "sorry"?

If I was the ump, I'd call executive privilege and no out.

Here, the leagues always allow one courtesy runner (last out) but there are no penalties in place for using someone else. If the last out is not available, someone else like last across will run. Also, one team will ask for an additional runner (due to injuries) and no one has ever said no.

Why is it a douche move? The offense played with fire by using a courtesy runner that was due to hit in 3 batters. It's a smart move by the defense, nothing more.

 

[TheLacinStation]

Why is it a douche move? The offense played with fire by using a courtesy runner that was due to hit in 3 batters. It's a smart move by the defense, nothing more.

Especially under a ruleset that basically says "any player" can be used as the courtesy runner. Why would you even take the chance.

 

[-Six-]

How funny. put in a runner who has to bat in two at bats. Brilliant.