Any Deep!!!

[JJR12]

I offered an umpire 1K to show me in the rule book where it says that a ball will be called a "ball" because it landed to far back. Too bad he didn't take me up on the offer....

I did first ask if the pitch crossed over the plate... "Yes".. then I asked if it was in the hitters strike zone..."Yes".... Then I asked why it was called a ball... "It landed to far back"

I don't understand why he wouldn't take me up on my offer to pay him a Thousand dollars cash if he could show me in the rule book that balls and strikes are determined based on where they land behind the plate....


I have also had some good umpires too... In one case I threw a knuckle ball that was moving and it crossed the plate in the strike zone catching the corner and it ended up landing on the chalk of the opposite batters box... Batter gets upset pointing out that the ball landed on the chalk... Without missing a beat the umpires replies "Yes it did, but it also crossed over the plate in your strike zone." I really liked that umpire...

 

[chris21]

I've had similar situations happen in our league. We play ASA with no mat, so strikezone is in use. have had just about every ump try to ump like it's a mat and only call balls and strikes as if there were a mat. it gets really frustrating that the umps don't know the rules of the game that they get paid to work.

 

[bb666b77]

yeah call strike gets to be an adventure at times.i was catching and had an ump say that if any of the pitches went back further than his imaginary line it was gonna be a ball.i asked (this was utrip)what about balls that came thru the strike zone,he said it didn't matter.
i had an ump one time i threw a knuckle ball that came in from the outside and landed behind the plate called a strike, and K'ed the batter,i had thought it went around the plate(as it looked about a foot or so outside when it went by the plate),but hey who was i to argue as the pitcher.

 

[TEX1959]

how bout one that lands about halfway between the point and the corner, about a foot behind the plate, perfect 6' to 10' arch. ump says nothing, so I am assuming he is calling it a ball, and ask him what was wrong with that one?
he says, it was outside. thought the girl batting was gonna lose it on that one.

 

[Whitey0817]

A lot of umps around here call it as it lands, whatever...what gets me is if it lands in the dirt next to the V of the plate after crossing the plate its a strike, but if the same pitch is 6 inches over at the same depth and hits the V its a ball? Never got that one

 

[NCASAUmp]

A lot of umps around here call it as it lands, whatever...what gets me is if it lands in the dirt next to the V of the plate after crossing the plate its a strike, but if the same pitch is 6 inches over at the same depth and hits the V its a ball? Never got that one

Because if the pitch hits the plate, by rule, it's a ball.

That's the only time it ever matters where the pitch lands.

 

[VF500Racer]

I ump a mat-ball league, so I call pitches deep all the time.

That's funny

Shouldn't your call be "Mat!" "No Mat!"

 

[Whitey0817]

Because if the pitch hits the plate, by rule, it's a ball.

That's the only time it ever matters where the pitch lands.

I understand the rule, just think the plate should be a square if the ump is calling by where the pitch lands

 

[NCASAUmp]

I understand the rule, just think the plate should be a square if the ump is calling by where the pitch lands

But it's not a square.

 

[MrEye]

I call it the right way and had a nasty knuckler come around the plate and land right behind it about 14-16 inches back. I had to call a ball. The pitcher asked me after the inning if he will get the same type of call if it crosses, but lands in the batter's box. I said, "you bet."

I'm in my second year and have talked to a first year ump about this and we both agree that it's getting frustrating and feels like we're fighting a losing battle calling things the right way because there are so many "lazy" umps that just call it where it lands. I've been close to just saying, "the hell with it." If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

 

[gotigersgo]

I don't understand why if it's hits the plate, it's a ball. It should just be a strike zone.

 

[joncon]

That's the only time it ever matters where the pitch lands

Here we go again.

If the pitch crosses the zone and hits you (ump) in the nuts, it's an obvious ball.

The laws of gravity dictate a defined depth where a pitched ball can land.

Someone with more math/geomerty skills than I possess could determine that depth but I'd guess it would be from about 1" on a higher pitch to about 30-36" on a flat one.

The rules for called strikes don't say deep but, you know what it means. In this case, since it crosses the zone, it meant excessive speed or flat.

 

[NCASAUmp]

Here we go again.

If the pitch crosses the zone and hits you (ump) in the nuts, it's an obvious ball.

The laws of gravity dictate a defined depth where a pitched ball can land.

Someone with more math/geomerty skills than I possess could determine that depth but I'd guess it would be from about 1" on a higher pitch to about 30-36" on a flat one.

The rules for called strikes don't say deep but, you know what it means. In this case, since it crosses the zone, it meant excessive speed or flat.

And a sudden gust of wind can carry a ball a good distance beyond where it would have landed.

 

[joncon]

And a sudden gust of wind can carry a ball a good distance beyond where it would have landed.

And a tornado could send a stike over the OF fence for a home run....but that's a stretch also.


99.9% of the time, a ball going thru a strike zone will land in a relatively small and defined area. You just don't want to think that a piece of rubber can do your job

 

[jimmermc]

And a tornado could send a stike over the OF fence for a home run....but that's a stretch also.


99.9% of the time, a ball going thru a strike zone will land in a relatively small and defined area. You just don't want to think that a piece of rubber can do your job

Love this response.

 

[rtaven]

i had 1 umpire tell me the ball had to pass behind the plate to be a strike non mat league.i tried to explain but didn,t wan't to protest over this as i figured she was new,just asked her to check out.never saw her again.i guess she figured out she was wrong and quit umpireing rather than step up.

 

[NCASAUmp]

And a tornado could send a stike over the OF fence for a home run....but that's a stretch also.


99.9% of the time, a ball going thru a strike zone will land in a relatively small and defined area. You just don't want to think that a piece of rubber can do your job

I've called mat ball, and it takes away more strikes than it gives. Do you REALLY want to go to mat ball? Maybe we can put the ball on a tee for you instead.

 

[bb666b77]

I've called mat ball, and it takes away more strikes than it gives. Do you REALLY want to go to mat ball? Maybe we can put the ball on a tee for you instead.

really,the only strike i have ever see it take away is a curve that lands outside the mat.yes i would rather have mat ball instead of some idiot back there who calls the same pitch different,or changes half way thru the game.i say 75% of the umps i see really only call it as if there was a mat back there anyways,i get very few who call a real strike zone as the ball crosses the plate.

 

[PracticeSquad7]

Balls/strikes don't really matter to me. I RARELY take walks. If it's close and hit-able, I'll take a cut at it. The majority of the pitches I hit probably wouldn't be strikes if I let them go. I'd rather take a slightly outside pitch oppo to a gap or an inside pitch down the line and stand on 2b than take a walk, look like a puss and be on 1b. ijs

 

[NCASAUmp]

really,the only strike i have ever see it take away is a curve that lands outside the mat.yes i would rather have mat ball instead of some idiot back there who calls the same pitch different,or changes half way thru the game.i say 75% of the umps i see really only call it as if there was a mat back there anyways,i get very few who call a real strike zone as the ball crosses the plate.

I've seen plenty of pitches where almost half the ball crossed over the plate, but missed the mat by a quarter of an inch. No curves, just didn't hit the mat.

 

[joncon]

I've called mat ball, and it takes away more strikes than it gives. Do you REALLY want to go to mat ball? Maybe we can put the ball on a tee for you instead.

I prefer mat ball because it removes opinion (except height)

I don't care if it's mat only or mat and plate = strike. I don't even care if they make the mat bigger. I just want to take the opinion out of the strike/ball.

I enjoy hitting with a called strike zone, IF the umps are trained. In my observation, the called zone seems tighter than the mat which makes it even more af a hitters game.

I've seen plenty of pitches where almost half the ball crossed over the plate, but missed the mat by a quarter of an inch. No curves, just didn't hit the mat.

The existing mats I've seen are not accurate as they are squared off and some are only the width of the plate.


I think a good mat would be kind of an oval shape, protruding to about 6" from the sides of the plate and maybe 24-30" at the deepest point. With the proper dimensions, it would be 99% accurate and eliminate 50% of called strike arguements.

 

[NCASAUmp]

I prefer mat ball because it removes opinion (except height)

I don't care if it's mat only or mat and plate = strike. I don't even care if they make the mat bigger. I just want to take the opinion out of the strike/ball.

I enjoy hitting with a called strike zone, IF the umps are trained. In my observation, the called zone seems tighter than the mat which makes it even more af a hitters game.




The existing mats I've seen are not accurate as they are squared off and some are only the width of the plate.


I think a good mat would be kind of an oval shape, protruding to about 6" from the sides of the plate and maybe 24-30" at the deepest point. With the proper dimensions, it would be 99% accurate and eliminate 50% of called strike arguements.

Dumbest idea I'd ever heard...

 

[irishmafia]

I prefer mat ball because it removes opinion (except height)
.

I thought this was a softball board.

 

[stang7222]

The mat sucks. Most umpires around here do not call IPs for being too high. Do you know how hard it is to hit a ball that's 25' up and about to hit the back of the mat, right after a 6 footer hit the front of the plate for strike 2?

 

[joncon]

Dumbest idea I'd ever heard...

Care to elaborate?

Use some big words

I'd bet real money that 99% of every strike that crosses the zone will land within a relatively small defined zone. I'd also bet that anything not in that zone would not hit it. I am ballparking on my estimated dimensions but they aren't to far off.

I have seen a lot of strikes and balls hit the dirt. I started playing ball late in life and, after I quit pitching for safety reasons, most of my tournament play (1000 games??) was seen from behind the plate (old guy position).

I probably havent seen as many balls as you (heh heh) but, when catching, where the ball lands is usually my primary focus wheras you are calling the whole game. I doubt that where it lands ever enters your mind. I'm not saying it should, I'm saying that our perspectives are different. Also, I don't have any ego invested in the discussion. A lot od umps get all butthurt when the discussion turns to the mat.

If I were an ump, I'd just think of it as something that made my job easier.

It's one small step toward the ultimate robot ump.

 

[Gulf Coast Blue]

As an umpire.......

I have never called a game with a mat....

I have never worn shorts....

I have never seen a coach or a pitcher have a better view of the strike zone than I have (I will give F2 the benefit of the doubt on this one)....

I have never missed a pitch (ok.....that is just an out and out lie......but very few, and those I rushed, or just screwed up)....d;-)

I have never cheated, screwed, had it out for, been a homer, favored, liked, etc. one team over another....(when players call out our integrity....it hurts, and is the quickest way to get ejected by me)....

I have always showed respect to the players and coaches.....until the moment they no longer deserved it....

As a coach......

I have never been ejected from a game....

I won a crap load more than I lost....

I always (well....almost) had fun....

Was a teacher....

I could go on....but I think everyone gets it.

Joel

 

[NCASAUmp]

Care to elaborate?

Use some big words

I'd bet real money that 99% of every strike that crosses the zone will land within a relatively small defined zone. I'd also bet that anything not in that zone would not hit it. I am ballparking on my estimated dimensions but they aren't to far off.

I have seen a lot of strikes and balls hit the dirt. I started playing ball late in life and, after I quit pitching for safety reasons, most of my tournament play (1000 games??) was seen from behind the plate (old guy position).

I probably havent seen as many balls as you (heh heh) but, when catching, where the ball lands is usually my primary focus wheras you are calling the whole game. I doubt that where it lands ever enters your mind. I'm not saying it should, I'm saying that our perspectives are different. Also, I don't have any ego invested in the discussion. A lot od umps get all butthurt when the discussion turns to the mat.

If I were an ump, I'd just think of it as something that made my job easier.

It's one small step toward the ultimate robot ump.

I'd use big words, but they'd probably escape you.

The most basic definition of the strike zone is a pitch that the batter should be able to comfortably swing at.

Using a strike mat takes away perfectly hittable pitches and rewards the pitcher for perfectly unhittable pitches.

Just because you, the player, think it was or wasn't a strike doesn't mean that you were right. I have the best vantage point of anyone on the field, and unlike me, you have a vested interest in the game.

 

[rtaven]

as a pitcher i prefer a ump but good umps are few and far inbetween, much less stressful with mat except for 7ft pitchehes called flat. 99% of umpires have no idea how high 6ft is and most don't care to learn.
example: no batters box lines so can't call batter for being out of box unless they step on plate,say there not sure but can tell if pitched ball is 5'10" or 12"6" or excessive speed but can,t tell me what speed is excessive.
i think if they feel they can,t hit it it's got to be illegal.
it's a great game with good umps and feel the good ones do it for the love of the game, but can become a chore and i would rather be somewhere else with others who have not played or there for paycheck or just arrogant they know best even tho other umpire had much better angle.i understand missed calls especially with 1 umpire,but on a critical play that they were out of position and refuse to discuss with other umpire is a umpire i don,t respect.

 

[JJR12]

As a pitcher I hate the mat. It limits what I can do as a pitcher.

I prefer the zone. and yes every umpire has a different strike zone. But that is my job to adjust to the umpires strike zone because he isn't going to change it. That is why it is a good idea to have a couple of different style pitchers on your team and switching up your pitchers to take advantage of the type of strike zone the umpire is calling.

 

[joncon]

Using a strike mat takes away perfectly hittable pitches and rewards the pitcher for perfectly unhittable pitches.

HOW does a strike mat take away perfectly hittable pitches and reward the pitcher for perfectly unhittable pitches.

Can a pitch cross the strike zone and land a foot inside/outside the plate? Can a pitch cross the strike zone and land 4 feet behind the plate?

I know you won't answer those questions because that will mean you admit that there is a defined space of some size that is applicable. After that I will just keep narrowing the margins until you agree.

I understand that the release point can vary up to 8' or so, but the ball has to come across a relatively small area only 17" wide.

I'm not talking about a sudden gust of wind that appears once in 10,000 pitches, I am talking about normal softball.


Arguing with umpires. Will I ever learn