Differences Pitching USSSA vs ASA?

[Superstar555]

I've been asked to pitch a USSSA game as a sub, but have never pitched outside of ASA before.

I checked Google and didn't find anything that jumped out at me...anyone have a list of the differences from a pitching perspective?

 

[etnstudios]

throw flatter and do as many fakes as you can in 5 seconds. then get smoked

 

[Qoheleth52]

You can get away with some really flat pitches in USSSA if you make your release point as low as possible, basically making the strike zone irrelevant if you can drop it behind the plate. I personally do not enjoy hitting ankle high strikes.

 

[sacto73]

Wear a mask

 

[Big R]

I pitch both, and find it much harder to pitch usssa. The ball cannot be much above head high. Most of the balls I throw are because of height. It is difficult to transition. I pitch ASA on Fridays and USSSA on Sundays. YOu can be much more creative with your pitches in USSSA.

 

[EA Sports]

It's more fun to pitch in Utrip if you don't mind fielding some middle shots.

 

[Joker]

I pitch both, and find it much harder to pitch usssa. The ball cannot be much above head high. Most of the balls I throw are because of height. It is difficult to transition. I pitch ASA on Fridays and USSSA on Sundays. YOu can be much more creative with your pitches in USSSA.

you play against batters 10' tall?

 

[Big R]

Funny... There has been much debate on the 3 feet rule, but I have been told the rule is 3 feet from the release point, and no more than 10 feet high. Thus, a ball below 10 feet can be called a ball. At least that is what I have been told. I know I get called on balls below 10 feet quite often.

 

[jbo911]

Funny... There has been much debate on the 3 feet rule, but I have been told the rule is 3 feet from the release point, and no more than 10 feet high. Thus, a ball below 10 feet can be called a ball. At least that is what I have been told. I know I get called on balls below 10 feet quite often.

That's a ball in every association if it doesn't cross the batter for a strike.

UTrip umps normally won't call anything over head high a strike because the batters stand up in the box and if it hits the plate it's a ball, so it's virtually impossible to throw a pitch that hits 10' in the middle and crosses below the back shoulder without hitting the plate.

It's 3' from release, but with two strikes most batters will hit anything close. Getting ahead in the count is much more important in UTrip.

Getting out of the box is not an automatic time for the batter I believe, so if the guy steps out and the ump doesn't put his hand up drop in a strike.

Pitching UTrip sucks IMO. If the umps are good I'd say it's almost even with everything else, but when you throw flat pitches and their strike zones vary like they do it blows for the pitcher. If they make you drop it on a dime you're basically throwing bp fastballs, and pump fakes just get you blown up if you're playing good competition AND you have to be able to throw strikes while doing that anyway.

 

[Shoeless_Joe]

Big R has it right ... it's 3ft from release and no more than 10ft at apex (not sure about rest of response as of course it could be called ball based on where it lands or crosses batter). Unless rule has changed in last 1-2 years. ASA dropped their height limit from 6-12 to 6-10 a few years ago although at their discretion some leagues still allow 12ft.

 

[Shoeless_Joe]

That's a ball in every association if it doesn't cross the batter for a strike.

UTrip umps normally won't call anything over head high a strike because the batters stand up in the box and if it hits the plate it's a ball, so it's virtually impossible to throw a pitch that hits 10' in the middle and crosses below the back shoulder without hitting the plate.

It's 3' from release, but with two strikes most batters will hit anything close. Getting ahead in the count is much more important in UTrip.

Getting out of the box is not an automatic time for the batter I believe, so if the guy steps out and the ump doesn't put his hand up drop in a strike.

Pitching UTrip sucks IMO. If the umps are good I'd say it's almost even with everything else, but when you throw flat pitches and their strike zones vary like they do it blows for the pitcher. If they make you drop it on a dime you're basically throwing bp fastballs, and pump fakes just get you blown up if you're playing good competition AND you have to be able to throw strikes while doing that anyway.

^^^agreed^^^ though I haven't played a ton of utrip over years I've played enough. You best be ready as you're almost forced to throw cookies.

 

[Joker]

Funny... There has been much debate on the 3 feet rule, but I have been told the rule is 3 feet from the release point, and no more than 10 feet high. Thus, a ball below 10 feet can be called a ball. At least that is what I have been told. I know I get called on balls below 10 feet quite often.

yea so do i, but they are usually inside or outside

the only thing i really prefer about usssa pitching is having 6' behind the rubber to pitch from

 

[Big R]

I got a good education reading this old thread from 2008. It is interesting reading material if you have the time.
http://forums.softballfans.com/showthread.php?t=515301

 

[FLEET]

cartwheels and epileptic seizures are allowed

 

[SoCalChappy619]

Height is 3' from release to 10' ceiling.

Do not have to be set on the rubber. Foot must be in contact with rubber at release unless they have a floating rubber.

Once "set" you have 5 seconds to deliver the pitch.

No real need to juke. Just mix speeds and delivery angle. Literally saves energy and is just as if not more effective

 

[ilyk2win]

That's a ball in every association if it doesn't cross the batter for a strike.

UTrip umps normally won't call anything over head high a strike because the batters stand up in the box and if it hits the plate it's a ball, so it's virtually impossible to throw a pitch that hits 10' in the middle and crosses below the back shoulder without hitting the plate.

It's 3' from release, but with two strikes most batters will hit anything close. Getting ahead in the count is much more important in UTrip.

Getting out of the box is not an automatic time for the batter I believe, so if the guy steps out and the ump doesn't put his hand up drop in a strike.

Pitching UTrip sucks IMO. If the umps are good I'd say it's almost even with everything else, but when you throw flat pitches and their strike zones vary like they do it blows for the pitcher. If they make you drop it on a dime you're basically throwing bp fastballs, and pump fakes just get you blown up if you're playing good competition AND you have to be able to throw strikes while doing that anyway.

You know the back shoulder is relative right? It is based on the batter standing even with the plate so the strike zone doesn't (shouldn't) change based on where he is standing, otherwise guys would just stand all the way int he front or all the way in the back of the bxo and virtually never have a tsrike called on them.

Naturally umpires screw this up regularly......just like they consistently screw up the 3' "FROM RELEASE" and allow fast balls.

Funny if you watch any of the streamed Conference games, I haven't seen anything allowed that is even close to as flat as they allow at the lower levels.

My favorite sound bite though is when you lob one over 7' high and the other teams whines "Whoa, this isn't ASA" when both associations allow the same 10' ceiling. Shows that they general player is even dumber than the paid umpires who screw it up as well.

 

[jbo911]

yea so do i, but they are usually inside or outside

the only thing i really prefer about usssa pitching is having 6' behind the rubber to pitch from

Agreed.

You know the back shoulder is relative right? It is based on the batter standing even with the plate so the strike zone doesn't (shouldn't) change based on where he is standing, otherwise guys would just stand all the way int he front or all the way in the back of the bxo and virtually never have a tsrike called on them.

Naturally umpires screw this up regularly......just like they consistently screw up the 3' "FROM RELEASE" and allow fast balls.

Funny if you watch any of the streamed Conference games, I haven't seen anything allowed that is even close to as flat as they allow at the lower levels.

My favorite sound bite though is when you lob one over 7' high and the other teams whines "Whoa, this isn't ASA" when both associations allow the same 10' ceiling. Shows that they general player is even dumber than the paid umpires who screw it up as well.

This wasn't the case for UTrip when I started playing it. I haven't read the rule book to see if they've changed it, but that's what sucked so bad about UTrip. The other players loved it, hot bats, hard balls, and flat cookies, but I only met back up and fill in pitchers that liked it. I specifically had this conversation with LetsGetCrazy when he was pitching on the conference. UTrip thinks they give the pitcher the most weapons, but if they don't enforce the batter's box and they let the batters stand where they normally let them stand then you have about a 2 square foot window you have to throw through.

The description of the strike zone used to say it had to pass the batter in line with the plate, wherever the batter was standing, between the knee and shoulder. Basically, a curve ball that dropped behind the plate was a ball because it was outside when it passed the batter, a curve that crossed the batter but landed outside was a ball because it was outside when it crossed the plate, and you know how that would effect the height. You were basically throwing HR Derby fastballs to get it under their back shoulder that far in front of the plate, but still carrying past the plate to land.

I hope they changed it. If they haven't, they really need to, but even changing the rule doesn't mean the umps read the rule book and know it's changed.

 

[ilyk2win]

I've umpired some, but never USSSA. IMO though it seems that it would be the toughest to do in regards to calling the strike zone....just seems very subjective and hard to be consistent. As a P I see it first hand and up close.

ASA used to be the most pitcher friendly with tight boxes, 12' arc and reasonable bats.....but now at 10' arc with hot ass bats, not so much.

NSA has always been the worst IMO of the Big 3.....(now you have Softball Nation, Freedom, etc. that are even less pitcher firendly)

USSSA at least allows you some room to move to create different looks for the batter and the opportunity to affect the batter's rhythm or timing as well as comfort. The down side is that to do that the best, you need to stand the closest, throw the flattest and then hope you have time to defend yourself if their timing is on....lol.

I 100% agree about the batter's box issue.....the batter's have everything stacked in their favor, they don't really need to be able to stand wherever they want as well.

 

[franknwhit]

3 to 15 foot arc would be great. It's still slow pitch softball.

 

[Triple7]

Pitch ASA. Guys who play exclusively Utrip will have a hard time waiting on it. Or they will hammer it... One or the other

 

[ImminentDanger]

As far as I know, this definition from the 2013 USSSA Rulebook has always been the same:

"STRIKE ZONE
is that space directly above home plate that is not higher than the batter’s
highest shoulder, nor lower than the bottom of the batter’s front knee, when the batter assumes his natural batting stance. Any part of the pitched ball that passes through this zone is a strike."

Notice, it says, "directly above home plate" - this means the same as the ASA rule that says:

"STRIKE ZONE: That space over any part of home plate, when a batter assumes a natural batting stance adjacent to home plate, between the batter’s, B. (Slow Pitch) Back shoulder and the front knee."

HOWEVER - most umps look at the dirt (even in Utrip) instead of the defined strike zone - - Crazy, but true ....

If I was in charge of umps - I would spend endless hours training them to see and call THE REAL STRIKE ZONE....

%%%

 

[slick303]

I would start pitching Asa. If you don't get the calls then flatten it out till he starts calling it.

 

[jbo911]

I've umpired some, but never USSSA. IMO though it seems that it would be the toughest to do in regards to calling the strike zone....just seems very subjective and hard to be consistent. As a P I see it first hand and up close.

ASA used to be the most pitcher friendly with tight boxes, 12' arc and reasonable bats.....but now at 10' arc with hot ass bats, not so much.

NSA has always been the worst IMO of the Big 3.....(now you have Softball Nation, Freedom, etc. that are even less pitcher firendly)

USSSA at least allows you some room to move to create different looks for the batter and the opportunity to affect the batter's rhythm or timing as well as comfort. The down side is that to do that the best, you need to stand the closest, throw the flattest and then hope you have time to defend yourself if their timing is on....lol.

I 100% agree about the batter's box issue.....the batter's have everything stacked in their favor, they don't really need to be able to stand wherever they want as well.

I agree on the batter's box. With today's bats you can get hammered backside on a ball on the inside corner of the plate because the batter is still 3' off the plate.

 

[jbo911]

As far as I know, this definition from the 2013 USSSA Rulebook has always been the same:

"STRIKE ZONE
is that space directly above home plate that is not higher than the batter’s
highest shoulder, nor lower than the bottom of the batter’s front knee, when the batter assumes his natural batting stance. Any part of the pitched ball that passes through this zone is a strike."

Notice, it says, "directly above home plate" - this means the same as the ASA rule that says:

"STRIKE ZONE: That space over any part of home plate, when a batter assumes a natural batting stance adjacent to home plate, between the batter’s, B. (Slow Pitch) Back shoulder and the front knee."

HOWEVER - most umps look at the dirt (even in Utrip) instead of the defined strike zone - - Crazy, but true ....

If I was in charge of umps - I would spend endless hours training them to see and call THE REAL STRIKE ZONE....

%%%

If they called the real strikezone nobody would stand in front of the plate because I could easily drop balls into the real strikezone that were over the batter's head before striding, let alone in his actual stride.

 

[ImminentDanger]

If they called the real strikezone nobody would stand in front of the plate because I could easily drop balls into the real strikezone that were over the batter's head before striding, let alone in his actual stride.

AS IT SHOULD BE!!!!!!

%%%