Do Restricted Flight balls really help?

-TheHook-

-TheHook-

Addicted to Softballfans
A lot of these associations and leagues are moving to restricted flight balls to try and make the game safer. We've been playing with them here and the shots up the middle and through the infield are just as hot IMO, but about at 3/4 of their travel they slow down tremendously.... You have to really jack one to get it out now. I bet HR's are down 50% at least around here, which I don't mind so much if they are actually making it safer for the pitcher and infielders, but its not.

As a pitcher and first baseman I haven't noticed a drop in ball speed at all. As a hitter when trying to put one out you hit a ball and you just know it's gone until it gets to about the patch and starts to die ending up as a warning track pop up or less. Ask the pitcher and middle infield if they thought it was gone when it went by them and I bet they'd say yeah.

So I ask whats the point? I honestly believe the initial power and speed is the same, so who are they protecting? The outfielders? Maybe I'm missing something....
 
DSNuts48

DSNuts48

Badass
It's hard to tell a drop in velocity within 50-65 feet. I can definitely tell a difference between a batted ball that I barely deflect with my glove and a hard liner that that I catch.
 
S

Smokies26

Manager
I see what you are saying. I lead off so I just hit the holes on the INF and have not noticed a bit of change. The ball still gets thru quick.
 
DRock88

DRock88

What's the problem here?
This being done around south LA, too. Exit speed is no different, in my opinion. The balls are still coming rapidly out of the shoot. In fact, I don't even feel like the balls have too much impact on power hitting. You see many more line drive home runs now, though, because those lofty shots hang up.
 
D

duke4005

Addicted to Softballfans
We just switched to the 52/275 Dudley's and I see the same thing. They bounce like Superballs through the infield but die about 3/4 of the way through flight. I don't personally see the point. I saw a ball one hop our left fielder last week and bounce over his head (he is 6'2").
 
lOOkatme

lOOkatme

Addicted to Softballfans
I personally think the 52/275lbs balls are MORE dangerous than the older harder compression balls. I am used to fielding baseballs and the softballs of 325 classic M compression. I played two tournies this year where they used 52/275lbs compression balls....and its like I never fielded in my life before with these balls. Especially ones that bounce 2-3 times in front of you.....you basically just guess where its going to go on a field thats been played on a lot. The old balls don't skip then bounce over your head like a super ball.


I think what they are trying to do is fine....but you cannot make a ball like they have....which is totally unreliable in the field for playing the sport. I personally think they should have unlimited HR's....teams provide 2 new game balls and 2 used game balls each....you hit you get. This takes pressure off hitting middle.....even with a 4 man outfield....because you can hit the long ball. If you constrain people to 0 hr's...and a team plays a 4 man infield.....your pitcher is going to get killed.
 
ALB_Bones

ALB_Bones

Philippians 4:13
I think the 52/275lbs balls are supposed to minimize the impact when you are hit by it if I'm not mistaken, but I may be wrong
 
lOOkatme

lOOkatme

Addicted to Softballfans
ALB_Bones said:
I think the 52/275lbs balls are supposed to minimize the impact when you are hit by it if I'm not mistaken, but I may be wrong
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yes...probably.

But my question is this.

If with the old ball.....you get 1,000 people hit in the face...but the damage is 10% worse........and with the new ball.....10,000 get hit in the face......which is worse.
 
rookieslugger

rookieslugger

Addicted to Softballfans
playing third base, i got hit in the face with one of the new worth toxic balls and havent talked **** about the ball since. if it would have been a more solid ball im sure i would have lost some teeth and broken my jaw but i was lucky enough to get away with a chipped tooth, some blood, and a reallly fat lip.
 
-TheHook-

-TheHook-

Addicted to Softballfans
lOOkatme said:
I personally think the 52/275lbs balls are MORE dangerous than the older harder compression balls. I am used to fielding baseballs and the softballs of 325 classic M compression. I played two tournies this year where they used 52/275lbs compression balls....and its like I never fielded in my life before with these balls. Especially ones that bounce 2-3 times in front of you.....you basically just guess where its going to go on a field thats been played on a lot. The old balls don't skip then bounce over your head like a super ball.


I think what they are trying to do is fine....but you cannot make a ball like they have....which is totally unreliable in the field for playing the sport. I personally think they should have unlimited HR's....teams provide 2 new game balls and 2 used game balls each....you hit you get. This takes pressure off hitting middle.....even with a 4 man outfield....because you can hit the long ball. If you constrain people to 0 hr's...and a team plays a 4 man infield.....your pitcher is going to get killed.
Click to expand...


Yeah I'm seeing the same thing you are, more nasty hops. We've had out shortstop and 3b get some dangerous hops and on occasion have been hit. Balls are definitely more bouncy.

It just doesn't make sense to me why we are using these balls at all... it's like they don't test them before they put them out there. If initial power and ball speed is the same through the infield why have a ball get slower in the outfield?? Ridiculous. I'm glad I'm not the only one noticing this, hopefully these ball manufacturers and associations will take notice as well.
 
jp24

jp24

Band
rookieslugger said:
playing third base, i got hit in the face with one of the new worth toxic balls and havent talked **** about the ball since. if it would have been a more solid ball im sure i would have lost some teeth and broken my jaw but i was lucky enough to get away with a chipped tooth, some blood, and a reallly fat lip.
Click to expand...

Put your glove in front of it next time. ;)
 
-TheHook-

-TheHook-

Addicted to Softballfans
rookieslugger said:
playing third base, i got hit in the face with one of the new worth toxic balls and havent talked **** about the ball since. if it would have been a more solid ball im sure i would have lost some teeth and broken my jaw but i was lucky enough to get away with a chipped tooth, some blood, and a reallly fat lip.
Click to expand...

We tried the toxics here before these gay balls we have now and the toxics weren't too bad compared to these pieces of **** we are using. They were easy to cut though. We usually ruined at least one ball per game.
 
bbomber4

bbomber4

Addicted to Softballfans
They do bounce more erratically than the rocks do, but I still think a classic m comes off a bat much quicker than a 52/275 or an SB12.
 
L

Live4Brew

All Stock.
-TheHook- said:
A lot of these associations and leagues are moving to restricted flight balls to try and make the game safer. We've been playing with them here and the shots up the middle and through the infield are just as hot IMO, but about at 3/4 of their travel they slow down tremendously.... You have to really jack one to get it out now. I bet HR's are down 50% at least around here, which I don't mind so much if they are actually making it safer for the pitcher and infielders, but its not.

As a pitcher and first baseman I haven't noticed a drop in ball speed at all. As a hitter when trying to put one out you hit a ball and you just know it's gone until it gets to about the patch and starts to die ending up as a warning track pop up or less. Ask the pitcher and middle infield if they thought it was gone when it went by them and I bet they'd say yeah.

So I ask whats the point? I honestly believe the initial power and speed is the same, so who are they protecting? The outfielders? Maybe I'm missing something....
Click to expand...

This is not physically possible. The ball doesn't have a mind of it's own, it doesn't know distance. Ball travel is dependent on exit speed, spin, and trajectory. If the ball is not traveling as far, given the same spin and trajectory, then it's not coming off the bat as fast, which means it's not as fast through the infield.
 
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jed.only

jed.only

Don't judge me.
Live4Brew said:
This is not physically possible. The ball doesn't have a mind of it's own, it doesn't know distance. Ball travel is dependent on exit speed, spin, and trajectory. If the ball is not traveling as far, given the same spin and trajectory, then it's not coming off the bat as fast, which means it's not as fast through the infield.
Click to expand...

in all of that physics-type talk, you missed the part about how the ball changes shape due to force and how it regains shape as that forced is diminished via friction through the air. this would explain that guys claim of the ball dying, and pretty much anyone else that has played with the HotDots or similar. those balls do not stay perfectly round in the process, to think that is ridiculous.
 
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Live4Brew

All Stock.
jed.only said:
in all of that physics-type talk, you missed the part about how the ball changes shape due to force and how it regains shape as that forced is diminished via friction through the air. this would explain that guys claim of the ball dying, and pretty much anyone else that has played with the HotDots or similar. those balls do not stay perfectly round in the process, to think that is ridiculous.
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This is also retarded. The ball does change shape when the bat makes contact (all balls do) - but as the ball makes a gradual return to spherical shape as time elapses after contact, the ball has less friction to deal with - which would be detrimental to this joke of a theory.

I didn't miss anything.
 
DSNuts48

DSNuts48

Badass
Live4Brew said:
This is not physically possible. The ball doesn't have a mind of it's own, it doesn't know distance. Ball travel is dependent on exit speed, spin, and trajectory. If the ball is not traveling as far, given the same spin and trajectory, then it's not coming off the bat as fast, which means it's not as fast through the infield.
Click to expand...

You forgot resistance and its effect of the spin on the ball. Other than that I agree.
 
-TheHook-

-TheHook-

Addicted to Softballfans
Live4Brew said:
This is not physically possible. The ball doesn't have a mind of it's own, it doesn't know distance. Ball travel is dependent on exit speed, spin, and trajectory. If the ball is not traveling as far, given the same spin and trajectory, then it's not coming off the bat as fast, which means it's not as fast through the infield.
Click to expand...


Yes it is. The seams on these balls are what makes them flight restrictive, but at the speed they come off the bat through the infield the seems aren't effective. The seams don't come into play until they slow down a bit which is basically the peak of the hit. So a ball smashed through the infield doesn't get affected but a ball driven with more a HR swing will get held up after it hits the peak of it's trajectory.

Trust me, I play with these ****ty balls every week. They are just as fast as other balls through the infield, but do nothing out towards the outfield.
 
L

Live4Brew

All Stock.
-TheHook- said:
Yes it is. The seams on these balls are what makes them flight restrictive, but at the speed they come off the bat through the infield the seems aren't effective. The seams don't come into play until they slow down a bit which is basically the peak of the hit. So a ball smashed through the infield doesn't get affected but a ball driven with more a HR swing will get held up after it hits the peak of it's trajectory.

Trust me, I play with these ****ty balls every week. They are just as fast as other balls through the infield, but do nothing out towards the outfield.
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No. .
 
BigShep

BigShep

Who's Your Daddy!
Live4Brew said:
This is not physically possible. The ball doesn't have a mind of it's own, it doesn't know distance. Ball travel is dependent on exit speed, spin, and trajectory. If the ball is not traveling as far, given the same spin and trajectory, then it's not coming off the bat as fast, which means it's not as fast through the infield.
Click to expand...
This is true. The perception that the ball is the same speed is an error in judgement. The difference between a ball traveling 80mph and one traveling 68mph isn't readily apparent unless seen side-by-side. The ball's designer has said that it is 15% slower through the infield.

To your point: "Do Restricted Flight balls really help?" ... The .52/275's help reduce injuries because they do about 70% less damage on impact at the same speed as a .44/375 ... plus they travel slower.

-TheHook- said:
... The seams on these balls are what makes them flight restrictive, but at the speed they come off the bat through the infield the seems aren't effective. The seams don't come into play until they slow down a bit which is basically the peak of the hit. So a ball smashed through the infield doesn't get affected but a ball driven with more a HR swing will get held up after it hits the peak of it's trajectory. ...
Click to expand...
This is true of fastpitch balls, but not the slowpitch balls we play with. The .52/275's we use have the same height seams as the .44/375's and .47/525's.
 
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-TheHook-

-TheHook-

Addicted to Softballfans
BigShep said:
This is true. The perception that the ball is the same speed is an error in judgement. The difference between a ball traveling 80mph and one traveling 68mph isn't readily apparent unless seen side-by-side. The ball's designer has said that it is 15% slower through the infield.

To your point: "Do Restricted Flight balls really help?" ... The .52/275's help reduce injuries because they do about 70% less damage on impact at the same speed as a .44/375 ... plus they travel slower.
Click to expand...

You could be right, but this is what our entire league has noticed, not just me. As a pitcher they seem the same speed, but who can REALLY tell. If it's a lower speed then it's very little.

BigShep said:
This is true of fastpitch balls, but not the slowpitch balls we play with. The .52/275's we use have the same height seams as the .44/375's and .47/525's.
Click to expand...

The balls that are restrictive flight that we use have slightly raised seams, but not as much as fastpitch, and little grooves that probably creates the air pockets which explains their lack of distance towards the outfield.

Thanks for the opinion.. although I don't completely agree it's better then answering "No...":cool:
 
BRAIN

BRAIN

Rookie
I am going to invent a ball that travels really slow through the IF then picks up speed after about 100'. Stay tuned. :D
 
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