ASA Does the run score??

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cdthedj

New Member
runners on 1st and 3rd. one out. line drive to right. caught. runner of 1st is thrown out at first. But the runner on third properly tags and scores before the out is made at first. Third out. Does the run score?
 
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trippy1313

Starting Player
Wait, was the runner on first thrown out going to 2nd, or going back to first to tag up? If he was thrown out because he didnt tag up, wouldn't that be a force out, therefore the runner on thirds run NOT count, because the forced runner must be safe, on what sounds like an inning ending double-play?
 
NCASAUmp

NCASAUmp

Un-Retired
Repeat after me.

It is not a force out. It is not a force out. It is not...

Look, I know it looks like a force out. The defense throws the ball to the base, they tag the base without saying anything, and they get the out if the throw beats the runner there. But that’s not a force out, it’s nothing more than a live ball appeal.
 
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irishmafia

Addicted to Softballfans
trippy1313 said:
Wait, was the runner on first thrown out going to 2nd, or going back to first to tag up? If he was thrown out because he didnt tag up, wouldn't that be a force out, therefore the runner on thirds run NOT count, because the forced runner must be safe, on what sounds like an inning ending double-play?
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Think about it. How was that a force out? From what base was any runner forced by the batter becoming the batter-runner? Was not the force removed when the BR was put out?
 
AH23

AH23

Addicted to Softballfans
trippy1313 said:
Wait, was the runner on first thrown out going to 2nd, or going back to first to tag up? If he was thrown out because he didnt tag up, wouldn't that be a force out, therefore the runner on thirds run NOT count, because the forced runner must be safe, on what sounds like an inning ending double-play?
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No, timing play, not a force play. See above. Irish nailed it.
 
T

trippy1313

Starting Player
NCASAUmp said:
Repeat after me.

It is not a force out. It is not a force out. It is not...

Look, I know it looks like a force out. The defense throws the ball to the base, they tag the base without saying anything, and they get the out if the throw beats the runner there. But that’s not a force out, it’s nothing more than a live ball appeal.
Click to expand...


Okay, if it's considered a "live ball appeal," then that makes sense.

Otherwise it just seems that it would be forced, as if the runner is off the bag when a ball is caught, he's "forced" to tag up before advancing. That was how I always thought of it. But I guess I was wrong? Its just considered an appeal?
 
EdFred

EdFred

every day I'm shovelin'
trippy1313 said:
Okay, if it's considered a "live ball appeal," then that makes sense.

Otherwise it just seems that it would be forced, as if the runner is off the bag when a ball is caught, he's "forced" to tag up before advancing. That was how I always thought of it. But I guess I was wrong? Its just considered an appeal?
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Use a different word in "forced to tag up" and it eliminates confusion. Runner are forced by the batter and preceding runenrs, but obligated to return to tag on caught balls. Then we can call the appeal an obligation play. Ha.
 
Joker

Joker

Well-Known Member
you can only be forced forward to the next base by a runner behind you. end of discussion
 
AH23

AH23

Addicted to Softballfans
Joker said:
you can only be forced forward to the next base by a runner behind you. end of discussion
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The batter/runner has to be the one pushing everyone.

If you have bases loaded and they throw the batter out at first, just having the runner going from second to third doesn't "force" the runner off of third because the force has been removed by the out at first. Just having a runner behind you doesn't mean anything.
 
I

irishmafia

Addicted to Softballfans
trippy1313 said:
Otherwise it just seems that it would be forced, as if the runner is off the bag when a ball is caught, he's "forced" to tag up before advancing. That was how I always thought of it. But I guess I was wrong? Its just considered an appeal?
Click to expand...

Let me try to help you. A runner is NEVER forced to advance or return to a base. They are force FROM a base which by the fact the batter became a batter-runner. This "force" exist only as long as all trailing runner (including the BR) remain active. The moment any one of them are retired, the force no longer available.
 
R

RNRPLZ

Member
irishmafia said:
Let me try to help you. A runner is NEVER forced to advance or return to a base. They are force FROM a base which by the fact the batter became a batter-runner. This "force" exist only as long as all trailing runner (including the BR) remain active. The moment any one of them are retired, the force no longer available.
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Good way to spell it out. It’s true a force play must include a batter/runner. Caught off bag and whichever way they decide to go is by choice.
 
AH23

AH23

Addicted to Softballfans
Joker said:
some people just have to say something else that isn't needed
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^^^^ Example A.

AH23 said:
The batter/runner has to be the one pushing everyone.

If you have bases loaded and they throw the batter out at first, just having the runner going from second to third doesn't "force" the runner off of third because the force has been removed by the out at first. Just having a runner behind you doesn't mean anything.
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Was in response to your incomplete response.

Joker said:
you can only be forced forward to the next base by a runner behind you. end of discussion
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Is wrong. Runners on 2nd and 3rd, the runner at 3rd isn't forced just because he has someone behind him.
 
Joker

Joker

Well-Known Member
AH23 said:
^^^^ Example A.



Was in response to your incomplete response.



Is wrong. Runners on 2nd and 3rd, the runner at 3rd isn't forced just because he has someone behind him.
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if there is no one behind the runner on 2nd then they aren't being forced. sometimes common sense is needed and it's sorely lacking in this section
 
AH23

AH23

Addicted to Softballfans
People are in here asking for a reason, they don't know. You're not helping with half answers and your bs comments.
 
Joker

Joker

Well-Known Member
i didn't see him ask any further questions. stop treating people like 4 year olds
 
jbo911

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
Is this association specific? So the gsl umpire's around here disagree with you. To the point that our ump got it right according to you, and the team that had the run counted against them (us) went to several different umps to ask and they all said it shouldn't have counted. They even went back to our ump and told him he did it wrong because he told me this past Sunday he got it wrong. I told him I didn't think he got it wrong, but he just thought I was messing with him.
 
lb16

lb16

the natural
This is the correct call in every association if the ump's you spoke to said different they might want to quit umpiring!
 
JStout863

JStout863

Softball is Dumb
Run counts. Timing play.

As long as the run crossed the plate before the out was recorded, no matter if it was a Live-Ball appeal or appeal after the play ended.

It is NOT a force-out.
 
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