ASA Foot Out of the Batter's Box making Contact with Ball

[JR1912]

I had a situation come up twice this weekend. In both cases, the hitter went after an outside pitch and stepped in front of the plate to hit the pitch. In the first one, the whole foot wasn't in front of the plate but in my judgement, the whole foot would have been out of the batter's box or at least close to it. In the second one, the batters shoe print was about 99% in front of the plate. There may have been half an inch that didn't break the plane of the plate. This one was blatant that his whole foot was out of the box. Both umpires told me that "They have been told not to call that unless it's the entire foot in front of the plate." I have always been under the understanding that the rule was if your whole foot is out of the batters box upon contact with the ball, it would be ruled a dead ball and batter is out.

Is there a different circumstance or application of this rule when it comes to in front of the plate? Also, I was wondering about if the foot touches the plate but still has part of the foot in the batters box, what's the call on this? I thought I remember a rule being in place that the plane of the plate went on infinitely so that if any part of a foot broke that plane, they would be out. I could be way wrong on that, so don't quote me on that one.

I am just looking for clarification and wondered if the umpire had any basis in saying that the whole foot had to be in front of the plate?

 

[FatBoy28]

If there are no lines then whether or not the batter's foot was out of the box is umpires judgement. My guess is that to avoid disagreements/arguments, the umpires were told to use the "whole foot in front of the plate" rule of thumb as it would be difficult for the batter to argue that any part of your foot was still in the box.

 

[BretMan]

JR1912, your understanding of the rule is correct. It's illegal to bat the ball when the foot is on the ground and entirely outside of the batter's box- in any direction, not just in front of the plate.

It is also illegal to bat the ball with any portion of the foot touching home plate, even if part of the foot is still inside the batter's box. For this rule, the foot doesn't need to be entirely out of the box.

A good guideline for umpires if no boxes are chalked out: Only call this if it is blatantly obvious that the batter was grossly out of the box. Don't nit-pick at this call looking for minor violations. On any borderline violation, give the batter the benefit of the doubt.

 

[JR1912]

Ok. I just wanted to make sure I was correct on the application of the rule. We were dealing with a field that didn't have chalk outlines and I am willing to give the first situation benefit of the doubt as I think the batter was out of the box but with no line and all the other foot prints in the dirt, it would have been tough to call/judge. The second one was blatant as there was a full foot print in front of the plate and knowing that the box is 6 inches off the inside of the plate, the umpire should have been able to call that one. I got frustrated with the 2nd situation because the umpire actually told me the ASA rule was that when specifically dealing with in front of the plate, it had to be a whole foot in front of it and the batter's box rule didn't apply.

 

[JR1912]

I also want to add that it was funny to hear players from the other team argue that since there is no chalk lines down, there is no batter's box.

 

[MaverickAH]

Ok. I just wanted to make sure I was correct on the application of the rule. We were dealing with a field that didn't have chalk outlines and I am willing to give the first situation benefit of the doubt as I think the batter was out of the box but with no line and all the other foot prints in the dirt, it would have been tough to call/judge. The second one was blatant as there was a full foot print in front of the plate and knowing that the box is 6 inches off the inside of the plate, the umpire should have been able to call that one. I got frustrated with the 2nd situation because the umpire actually told me the ASA rule was that when specifically dealing with in front of the plate, it had to be a whole foot in front of it and the batter's box rule didn't apply.

The actual footprint means absolutely nothing unless the umpire is absolutely sure that contact with the ball was made after the foot was down. If that foot comes down a millisecond after contact, the batter's good.

With that said, it's umpire's judgment & without lines, most umpires are going to err on the side of caution.

 

[rhound50]

Yes you have the rule book definition correct, the reality is that without chalked lines it is difficult to tell for sure if the whole foot is out of the batters box. On a play where the batter doesn't really gain an advantage, I think the umpire is right to error on the side of not calling the batter out.

 

[JR1912]

Yes you have the rule book definition correct, the reality is that without chalked lines it is difficult to tell for sure if the whole foot is out of the batters box. On a play where the batter doesn't really gain an advantage, I think the umpire is right to error on the side of not calling the batter out.

They gain a lot of advantage when they swing at an outside pitch and slap a triple to the opposite field and being able to step in front of the plate allows them to get the proper footwork to do it where if they had to stay within the batters box they might not be able to do this.

 

[rhound50]

They gain a lot of advantage when they swing at an outside pitch and slap a triple to the opposite field and being able to step in front of the plate allows them to get the proper footwork to do it where if they had to stay within the batters box they might not be able to do this.

If they have to step with the front foot completely out of the box to have proper footwork to hit the ball then you should be thanking them for swinging at a pitch that is not close to being a strike. Either way the batter still has to make good contact just as they would on any other pitch. Its underhand, no one wants to play in a game where the umpire is focused on where the batters feet are on every swing its a tiny almost irrelevant detail. If you happen to find the one person who has perfected the stepping out of the box to slap a pitch 2 feet wide to RF than have your pitcher throw inside.

 

[RopeHitter]

U-trip ump here. I call it all the time without lines. When they question the call, I ask them the rule. 95% of players do not know that the box is 6 inches from the side of the plate. Therefore if they step in front with their toe, the back of the foot is out of the box as well. Most arguments end when I ask them to quote me the rule book!

 

[spos21ram]

One reason why I hate calling a batter out for stepping over the plate is because they usually doit when swinging at a terrible pitch that is way outside. I dont see this as an advantage for the batter. Playing in the field or umpiring, I'd rather see people swinging than taking walks. Umping a game last week where the hitting team was up 18 in the 3rd inning. Opposing pitcher had a tough time throwing strikes and the batters were swinging at anything so they didn't walk. No way Im calling them out of the box in that situation.

 

[Joker]

so you only go by the rules when you feel like it?

 

[spos21ram]

Haha we dont chalk a box. And i dont ump to pick fights. Its gotta be very obvious or im not calling it. Only time im strict on this is when a batter is out of the front of the box. Way out in front of the box shooting middle, putting the pitcher in jeopardy? Ill call it all day.

 

[Joker]

so only call it when they are shooting middle?

 

[spos21ram]

If it puts a player in jeopardy of injury or puts the batter at an advantage ill call it.

 

[spos21ram]

If I only call a batter out of the box when they are way out in front or I feel the batter got an advantage then how is that not being consistent? I think that's the definition of being consistent.

 

[spos21ram]

If a baseball ump only calls strikes from the knees to the waste then although he isn't going by the book rule of a strike, he's still extremely consistent if that's the only time he calls a strike.

 

[Joker]

or if they are shooting middle. also i don't think any rule is determined by how you feel on any given play

 

[spos21ram]

or if they are shooting middle. also i don't think any rule is determined by how you feel on any given play

I didn't mean just cause they shoot middle, I gave it as an example. I will call a batter out of the box anytime they are out in front of the box. If your foot is completely out of the front of the box then that mean's your almost 4 feet in front of the plate. Now your getting into unsafe territory for pitchers.

 

[Joker]

One reason why I hate calling a batter out for stepping over the plate is because they usually doit when swinging at a terrible pitch that is way outside. I dont see this as an advantage for the batter. Playing in the field or umpiring, I'd rather see people swinging than taking walks. Umping a game last week where the hitting team was up 18 in the 3rd inning. Opposing pitcher had a tough time throwing strikes and the batters were swinging at anything so they didn't walk. No way Im calling them out of the box in that situation.

I didn't mean just cause they shoot middle, I gave it as an example. I will call a batter out of the box anytime they are out in front of the box. If your foot is completely out of the front of the box then that mean's your almost 4 feet in front of the plate. Now your getting into unsafe territory for pitchers.

this is not consistent

 

[spos21ram]

In the first quote i'm taking about stepping over the plate on outside pitches, not out of the front of the box.

 

[Joker]

so they can be out of the box over the plate but not in front of the box? also not very consistent

 

[rhound50]

Who cares, neither team likes getting outs called for a batter stepping out of the box. We play this game to hit the ball and field it when its hit to us, people get excited to make plays and get hits, no one gets excited to see people called out for stepping out of the box. Yes its a rule and yes it should be called, but unless the batter is far enough out of the box that there is no doubt I don't see any reason to make the call. The call is a tough one to make without actual lines so if you are going to error one side of the call error on the side of not calling anything and letting the players play.

 

[trip]

every time some dumbass walks the box i look down at his feet before the pitch crosses.

 

[Joker]

Who cares, neither team likes getting outs called for a batter stepping out of the box. We play this game to hit the ball and field it when its hit to us, people get excited to make plays and get hits, no one gets excited to see people called out for stepping out of the box. Yes its a rule and yes it should be called, but unless the batter is far enough out of the box that there is no doubt I don't see any reason to make the call. The call is a tough one to make without actual lines so if you are going to error one side of the call error on the side of not calling anything and letting the players play.

it could be any rule, nothing worse than an inconsistent ump

 

[Dupe19]

If there are no lines then whether or not the batter's foot was out of the box is umpires judgement. My guess is that to avoid disagreements/arguments, the umpires were told to use the "whole foot in front of the plate" rule of thumb as it would be difficult for the batter to argue that any part of your foot was still in the box.

JR1912, your understanding of the rule is correct. It's illegal to bat the ball when the foot is on the ground and entirely outside of the batter's box- in any direction, not just in front of the plate.

It is also illegal to bat the ball with any portion of the foot touching home plate, even if part of the foot is still inside the batter's box. For this rule, the foot doesn't need to be entirely out of the box.

A good guideline for umpires if no boxes are chalked out: Only call this if it is blatantly obvious that the batter was grossly out of the box. Don't nit-pick at this call looking for minor violations. On any borderline violation, give the batter the benefit of the doubt.

or if they are shooting middle. also i don't think any rule is determined by how you feel on any given play

Isn't umpire's judgement exactly how they feel on that given play?

 

[Joker]

judgement is different than how you feel

 

[rhound50]

it could be any rule, nothing worse than an inconsistent ump

Actually the way it is most umpires don't call it unless its obvious that is actually pretty consistent.

 

[Joker]

Actually the way it is most umpires don't call it unless its obvious that is actually pretty consistent.

i wasn't talking about most umpires. i was talking to one in particular who made it clear he wasn't consistent

 

[spos21ram]

Let me break this down so a simple mind can understand...I will only call someone out of the box if its blatantly obvious. More strict on front of the box but still needs to be obvious. I hate calling someone out for stepping over the plate...now what I just said I stick to which is the definition of consistent.