ASA HELP - runner it by batted ball

[ilyk2win]

Runner from 2B hit by batted ball, not on the bag. 4-man infield.

Umpire ruled that b/c there was no infielder there with a chance to make a play on the ball, the runner was not out.......and the ball was live.

All infielders were in what you would consider "normal" position, so ball only was past the pitcher, but off to his side, and not touched by anyone before striking the runner, ball then rolled/deflected into shallow CF.

Everyone on the field (both teams) except the umpire assumed this was an out.

Any citation from the rule book that covers this would be greatly appreciated.

 

[NCASAUmp]

Try rule 8-7-K:

When a runner is struck with a fair untouched batted ball while not in contact with a base and before it passes another infielder excluding the pitcher, or if it passes an infielder and another fielder has an opportunity to make an out.

EFFECT: The ball is dead and the runner is out. All other runners must return to the last base legally touched at the time of the interference.

I think he must've gotten mixed up, thinking that if there was no play available, then it couldn't have been interference. Unfortunately, that's just not the case.

 

[ilyk2win]

Thanks.

Yeah I assumed he was confusing it with the deflected ball rule or something.
Whatever it was, it was just a bad interpretation on his part and I just wanted to be able to point him in the right direction for future situations. We had a good conversation about it and no protest was filed.

 

[EdFred]

Follow up question on this.

How is it determined if the fielders are in front of or behind the runner (or the ball has passed a fielder) on a play like this? Distance the ball is from from the plate vs how far the fielder is from the plate? An offset towards the outfield based on a line between 1st and 2nd or 2nd and third?

 

[LIKEUCM]

Follow up question on this.

How is it determined if the fielders are in front of or behind the runner (or the ball has passed a fielder) on a play like this? Distance the ball is from from the plate vs how far the fielder is from the plate? An offset towards the outfield based on a line between 1st and 2nd or 2nd and third?

Are you serious? Look at the ball.. if it contacts the runner after it has passed a fielder other than the pitcher and no other fielder has an opportunity to make an out, keep it live. It is simple to see if a runner is in front of, or behind a fielder when contacted by a batted ball. It is also simple to see if the ball has passed a fielder other than the pitcher. You don't need a tape measure and a protractor to figure this out.

 

[EdFred]

Then I would say in a 4 man, unless the SS or 2B are playing on the grass, any ball hitting a runner who is just off second base has already passed a fielder.

The green line is behind all the fielders, yes? Yet I've seen a play still made by the SS or 2B on that play behind the bag. So is the ball past them or not?

 

[Joker]

stop, that is dumb

 

[blakcherry329]

I thought this was a basic rule, like the infield fly rule, that both baseball and softball follow. If you get hit, in fair territory, you're out and dead ball.

 

[LIKEUCM]

I thought this was a basic rule, like the infield fly rule, that both baseball and softball follow. If you get hit, in fair territory, you're out and dead ball.

It is a basic rule, but there are a few conditions. If the batted ball passes an infielder (other than the pitcher) and the ball strikes a runner while no other infielder has an opportunity to make an out, you leave the ball live. There are times where the infield is playing in where this will happen.

 

[lb16]

I thought this was a basic rule, like the infield fly rule, that both baseball and softball follow. If you get hit, in fair territory, you're out and dead ball.

You are out if off bag regardless of where fielders are. If runner is hit while on bag is when where fielders come in to play.

 

[ilyk2win]

Then I would say in a 4 man, unless the SS or 2B are playing on the grass, any ball hitting a runner who is just off second base has already passed a fielder.

The green line is behind all the fielders, yes? Yet I've seen a play still made by the SS or 2B on that play behind the bag. So is the ball past them or not?

You run the bases different than I've ever seen them run before.

 

[EdFred]

You run the bases different than I've ever seen them run before.

There is nothing in that picture that indicates how the bases are being run. The line is simply a distance from home plate showing that the ball while at 2B would be behind the SS.

 

[Sully]

You are out if off bag regardless of where fielders are. If runner is hit while on bag is when where fielders come in to play.

Rule 8-E-2 says The Batter becomes a Batter-Runner: When a fair batted ball strikes the person, attached equipment, or clothing of an umpire or a runner: 2. After passing a fielder other than the pitcher and no other fielder had an opportunity to make an out. EFFECT: The ball is live.

So if the 1B is playing up in front of the bag and the ball passes him and hits the runner off the base (assuming 2B doesn't have an opportunity to get an out on the hit), the ball is live. The rule doesn't say anything about the runner being on the bag at this point. In fact, 4 says before passing a fielder and contacts a runner off base. Dead ball runner is out. 5 says after passing a fielder and another fielder has an opportunity to make an out, dead ball runner is out. 6 says touches a runner in contact with a base, the runner is not out.

 

[ilyk2win]

There is nothing in that picture that indicates how the bases are being run. The line is simply a distance from home plate showing that the ball while at 2B would be behind the SS.

I was talking about what you wrote not your picture.

 

[EdFred]

I was talking about what you wrote not your picture.

Last time I saw a runner get hit he was "over" second base. Ball smoked up the middle, pitcher blocked the view, runner jumped thinking it was going to hit his shin, instead it took a high hop and got him in the chest. For me, that's just off second base, and since he wasn't in contact with the bag, he was not on it. How would you define it?

 

[ilyk2win]

Ok, but ball still hasn't passed a fielder

 

[EdFred]

By what defines "past a fielder" ? The green line is debatably past all 4 fielders. But is the ball really past a fielder at that point? Which is why I asked the question that was dismissed in post 5.

 

[Joker]

Please shut the **** up

 

[lb16]

Last time I saw a runner get hit he was "over" second base. Ball smoked up the middle, pitcher blocked the view, runner jumped thinking it was going to hit his shin, instead it took a high hop and got him in the chest. For me, that's just off second base, and since he wasn't in contact with the bag, he was not on it. How would you define it?

As I posted earlier runner is off bag in the situation you stated. There fore runner is out!

 

[ilyk2win]

By what defines "past a fielder" ? The green line is debatably past all 4 fielders. But is the ball really past a fielder at that point? Which is why I asked the question that was dismissed in post 5.

Yes the green line is past the fielders......in the OF. I've never seen a base runner use the OF as part of their path.

The part of the green line touching 2B (where the runner was in your story) is NOT past the fielders in your diagram or in "most" situations.

I feel like I'm being trolled here, bc this really is pretty simple to comprehend.

 

[BretMan]

Some rule sets- notably in baseball- define "past a fielder" as a batted ball that goes immediately by (within a step and reach) or through (under glove, through the legs) a fielder. Under that definition, the runner at second base would be out because the ball has NOT passed a fielder.

Most softball rule sets that I'm familiar with use a slightly different definition for "past a fielder". Take the above diagram. Draw a line directly from F3 to F4 to F6 to F5. Anything behind that line is past a fielder. A runner hit in that position would not be out because the ball HAS passed a fielder.

 

[EdFred]

Thanks Bret,

*THAT* is the explanation I was looking for.