Other ISA - re-entry

[whogotz]

Player T is in the lineup, 6th inning so he has hit and played defense already.

Player J subs in for Player T as a hitter. Player J gets a hit.

The offense has already used their base burglar that inning.

Can the base burglar go in as a sub for Player J, run the bases, then come out of the game when it is time for Player T to go back out as a re-entry?

i read this post a few times before submitting so hopefully i am clear.

 

[tmpnick16]

I believe Player T can only re-enter for the person that went in for him.
However he is going into the same spot in the lineup..
Hmmm..
I'm interested to know the answer as well.

 

[ImminentDanger]

Player T is in the lineup, 6th inning so he has hit and played defense already.

Player J subs in for Player T as a hitter. Player J gets a hit.

The offense has already used their base burglar that inning.

Can the base burglar go in as a sub for Player J, run the bases, then come out of the game when it is time for Player T to go back out as a re-entry?

i read this post a few times before submitting so hopefully i am clear.

Does your league follow the ISA Rules exactly or are the substituting rules modified for league play?

Is Playing Defense a league requirement when substituting?

Was the base burglar used as a "Courtesy Runner" or a Substitute? Does your league distinguish between those?

I don't know about ISA....
But....

Under ASA, substitution is all about the lineup (nothing to do with defense or individual person).... You can only be in the game twice -- and it must always be in the exact same place in the batting lineup...

So, Player A (hitting 5th) comes out (no matter where he was playing on defense), Player B takes his place as 5th batter (even if he doesn't get to swing the bat & can play any defensive position on the field), then Player B comes out and Player C takes the 5th place in the batting order (again, playing anywhere on defense)...

To put Player A back in the lineup, he must take the place of Player C (the 5th spot in the lineup)... After that, if Player B or Player C then wants to re-enter, he may only take the place in the hitting order that he previously had taken (5th batting spot) replacing whoever is currently in the game in that batting position...

It has nothing to do with replacing a particular person nor anything to do with playing a particular defensive position...

After (any) Player is replaced, THAT PLAYER may only retake the field by replacing whoever is currently holding the same batting position in the lineup that THAT PLAYER originally held... In other words, no player may ever show up in two different places in the batting lineup during a single game... and his position on defense may change a 1000 times without any affect on his substitution status... IT'S ALL ABOUT THE LINEUP...

And again, once a player enters the game in a particular batting lineup position, he may only re-enter the game in that same lineup position, taking the place of whomever is currently holding that spot...

But that's ASA... which only allows substitutes and not "Courtesy Runners" in official men's tournaments...

...

 

[eklee4]

In ISA Base Burglar can run for one person once per inning.
In your scenario Player T is substituted for by Player J.
If Base Burglar has been used and runs for Player J he would be a substitute and the the cannot use the Base Burglar again that game.
Player T would not be allowed to reenter as he has to reenter for the same player that replaced him.

 

[whogotz]

In ISA Base Burglar can run for one person once per inning.
In your scenario Player T is substituted for by Player J.
If Base Burglar has been used and runs for Player J he would be a substitute and the the cannot use the Base Burglar again that game.
Player T would not be allowed to reenter as he has to reenter for the same player that replaced him.

I would think this is the intention, however, I think the argument could be made that it is still about lineup position.

 

[ImminentDanger]

OK - I looked at the ISA 2012 Rulebook online at their website:

Rule 1- DEFINITIONS
BASE BURGLAR / BASE BANDIT-
A. Shall be designated before the game, and listed on the line-up card.
B. Shall not be a position player or EP.
C. Is eligible to run multiple times per half-inning for the same batter that they ran for the first time.
D. May be utilized as a regular substitute; however, that team loses the base burglar option for the remainder of that game.
E. In co-ed play, teams may have a male and female base burglar. Males can run for males and females can run for males or females.

Rule 5- Players and Substitutes
Section 4; Re-entry
A. Any of the starting players and substitutes, may be substituted and re-entered once, provided players occupy the same batting positions whenever in the line-up. The player and the substitutes may not be in the line-up at the same time.
B. Violation of the re-entry rule is handled as a protest when brought to the attention of the umpire by the offended team, and may be made any time during the game. The protest need not be made prior to the next pitch.

It certainly appears to me that "the same batting position" is the key factor...

It's the batting position that must be the same and several other substitutes may have played in that position prior to the original player re-entering in that same position... The substitution is to the batting position and not for a specific person...
- - - - - -

Separately from the substitution, note that according to definition C, the base burglar may run for the same person in the same inning multiple times...

But eklee4 is correct that (because of the Base Burglar definition D) if the base burglar is used as a substitute player the team no longer may use anyone as a base burglar for the remainder of that game...

...