Miken weighting difference.
- Thread starter Gishdream
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medoggy360
Starting Player
Sounds like someone is getting ready 2 do some shaving
Psycho
Addicted to Softballfans
All Miken's start out as a basic "shell" meaning that they are all one weight once they are made. Most of the "shells" start out between 24oz-25oz with out the end cap or the handle weight. All Miken's end caps are basically 3 different ones, them being .25oz, .50oz(Maxload) or a full 1oz(SuperMax) end cap. The balance points will vary "slightly" between a 25oz-30oz. I have found that most 29oz -30oz Miken's will run true to weight vs. any Miken that is a 25oz-28oz which typically run .04-.09oz's over the factory sticker. I personally don't see the advantage point in swinging a heavier Miken thinking the bat will come through the zone harder. If you are looking for a bat company that uses multiple different end caps that are heavier, Easton has 3-4 different end caps they use based on their weighting scale. Swinging a Demarini Cartel, the heavier the bat the more the end load is, my 28oz Cartel felt like it had a .05oz end load, the 27oz Cartel felt balanced to me. But Miken does not add weight to the end cap to get it to reach a desired weight, just a longer handle rod that's all.
I like to take apart old broke warranty returns just to see how they weigh them. I used to think that endload was the difference in cap weight minus the handle rod weight (1 oz - .5 oz = .5 oz endload) but I have found that not to be the case. If you think about it a bat without a cap and handle rod will tend to be a little endloaded because there is more weight in the barrel then in the handle. A 34" bat would have a 17" balance point without the cap and rod if it were balanced but they ususally balance at closer to 20" without the cap and rod. So since a shell is already a little endloaded they have to take that into account when they do their weighting. It is true the bat shell of a model is going to weigh the same for every weight (26 - 30oz). Then they take the shell and add the cap and rod with weight combos to come up with the right endload and final bat weight. I'm not sure but I bet they measure MOI(moment of interia) and balance point to come up with the right endload because I know its not as simple as cap minus rod equals endload. So once they get the right endload combo say .7oz rod and 1oz cap then all the weights(26-30oz) will have the same .3oz differential between rod and cap. example the 26 oz will have .7 and 1, the 27oz will have 1.2 and 1.5 because to go up 1oz they have to split the weight between the rod and cap, the 28 will have 1.7 and 2, and so on. These are just example numbers because I've never seen a rod bigger than 1oz but all I've messed with is 28oz models. What this means is they (26-30oz) will all have the same balance point. They have to because all the models have to have the same endload feel no matter what the final weight. Now the swing weight will be different but the balance point will be the same.
Real life examples:
28 oz orignal freak plus: cap was 1.9oz rod was 1oz thats a .9oz differential but freak plus's only have a ".5oz" endload
27 oz DC41: cap was only .7oz rod was only .1oz thats a .6oz differential but dc41's have a full "1oz" endload
The difference was the shell weight because the plus shell weighed 25.5oz but the dc41 shell weighed 26.8oz. That surprised me because I realized that the 26 and 27 DC had to weigh the same because the shell already weighs 26.8oz. When I bought my DC the 26 and 27 felt almost the same now I know why. The balance point of the DC was 21.5" and the BP of the plus was 20.8". The longer BP of the DC is what you would expect because it has a "1oz" endload and the plus only has a ".5oz" endload.
Balance point and endload are pretty much the same thing because the more endloaded a bat is the more the balance point moves away from the handle. So for a supermax DC41 with a "1oz" endload the balance point will be the same for all the weights (26-30oz). The benefit in going up in weight is the MOI gets larger every ounce you go up. What you want is the largest MOI you can handle without losing bat speed. If you can swing a 28 as fast as a 26 you would hit the ball father with the 28 because the MOI is larger and more energy is transfered to the ball on impact. I always swing endloaded bats because they have larger MOI's compared to the balanced versions. Here's an article on MOI for reference http://www.acs.psu.edu/drussell/bats/bat-moi.html
Real life examples:
28 oz orignal freak plus: cap was 1.9oz rod was 1oz thats a .9oz differential but freak plus's only have a ".5oz" endload
27 oz DC41: cap was only .7oz rod was only .1oz thats a .6oz differential but dc41's have a full "1oz" endload
The difference was the shell weight because the plus shell weighed 25.5oz but the dc41 shell weighed 26.8oz. That surprised me because I realized that the 26 and 27 DC had to weigh the same because the shell already weighs 26.8oz. When I bought my DC the 26 and 27 felt almost the same now I know why. The balance point of the DC was 21.5" and the BP of the plus was 20.8". The longer BP of the DC is what you would expect because it has a "1oz" endload and the plus only has a ".5oz" endload.
Balance point and endload are pretty much the same thing because the more endloaded a bat is the more the balance point moves away from the handle. So for a supermax DC41 with a "1oz" endload the balance point will be the same for all the weights (26-30oz). The benefit in going up in weight is the MOI gets larger every ounce you go up. What you want is the largest MOI you can handle without losing bat speed. If you can swing a 28 as fast as a 26 you would hit the ball father with the 28 because the MOI is larger and more energy is transfered to the ball on impact. I always swing endloaded bats because they have larger MOI's compared to the balanced versions. Here's an article on MOI for reference http://www.acs.psu.edu/drussell/bats/bat-moi.html
Last edited:
Camp
Giving Bitches Complexes
So a 26oz freak+ (.5oz el) has the same exact cap (weighed in grams) as a 30oz freak+? the only difference is in the handle? This would make for a very balanced swing ijs
There is a video on youtube from the show how its made that shows miken making a recoil. All the caps are the same when they put them in. They press them in the barrel and add the glue/resin from the inside through the hole in the handle. They add more or less glue according to the final weight of the bat. Once the glue dries it becomes part of the cap. The 26oz cap would be lighter than the 30oz cap but the rod would also be lighter in the 26oz. The difference between the cap weight and the rod weight would be the same for all (26-30oz) models though. The reason the difference in cap weight and rod weight is constant is because the bat has to have the same ".5oz" or whatever amount endload feel no matter what the final weight of the bat. They just don't add more weight to the handle as the weights go up because if they did that the 29 and 30 oz versions would feel more balanced than the 26-28 versions of the same model bat.
Well the caps are the same before the glue is added. Once the glue is added the glue becomes part of the cap. So a 26oz cap will be lighter than the 30oz cap and the rods will be different but the balance points will be the same for similar models.
Psycho
Addicted to Softballfans
This is correct, if you are use to swinging 26oz-28oz bats and then go to a 30oz you will notice the "what feels like a massive end load." But if you are use to swinging a 29oz-30oz you "may" feel the end load. Remember the balance point has nothing to do with swing speed at all. Some with slower swing speed "may" benefit in over all performance from a bat with a "greater overall mass" vs. someone with a fast swing speed swinging a 26oz-28oz bat that can bring enough power/mass through the zone to propel the ball once batted. This is just my .02 worth, I may be wrong but this is my thoughts on it.
Psycho
Addicted to Softballfans
Nah bro, this is reality.
I'll say it again. Caps are the same before they put them in the bat but once the glue is added the caps will weigh different amounts for the 26-30oz models. The rods will be different too. The balance point (which is related to endload and swing speed) and the weight differential between the cap and rod will be the same for a 26-30oz bat. My example 27oz DC41 had a .7oz cap and a .1oz rod. That means the 28oz would have a 1.2oz cap and a .6oz rod. They have to add 1oz and they split it .5oz in the cap and .5oz in the rod. But the difference .7-.1=.6 and 1.2-.6=.6 will be the same for every weight 26-30oz.
Balance point has everything to do with endload and swing speed. You could take two 30oz bats and make them have totally different balance points and swing weights. Swing weight is different than actual weight. A balanced 30oz will have a lower swing weight than an endloaded 30oz and a lower swing weight means you can swing it faster. When you move the weight toward the handle it lowers the swing weight and makes the bat easier to swing. If you could swing both of these bats the same speed you'd want to use the endloaded one because its MOI is way higher than the balanced one and the ball would go farther off it. Problem is most of the time you can't swing them the same speed because the swing weight is so different. So you have to find the heaviest one you can swing without losing swing speed. I had a 27oz supermax that I couldn't swing as fast as my 28oz maxload. Why, because the 27oz had a higher swing weight because it was more endloaded which meant the balance point was farther away from the handle. There was only a .5" difference in the balance point and only a .4oz difference in actual weight between the two but when you swung them you could feel a big difference in their swing weights. You just have to swing the different ones to see which one will work for you the best.
