NSA New Base Ump Positioning

[SevenBizzos]

So I played my first NSA tournament of the year and the base umps are now basically behind the second baseman when there's no runners on. So basically in short right center field. I'd say in the neighborhood of 70' - 80' from first base.

I guess this is fine, but it's leading to missed calls on close plays at first. The umps Saturday were admitting to having difficulties calling the close plays because of the new positioning. The angle is bad and the distance makes them more difficult. Most of them were honest with us in not liking it.

This especially becomes weird with 2 outs when all of the infielders are in the grass. With the mid 25' or so deeper than second base and the second baseman basically in really short right center, this puts is base ump in short right center field (because he has to be behind the fielders).

The story is this is the new positioning by NSA Umpire in Chief for it's umps. I'm guessing the reasoning is safety, but it's making things difficult on the umps (by their own admission). You're basically asking guys to make calls from more than 70' away.

Have any of you NSA umps been using this new positioning this year and how do you like it? Maybe you could shed some light on the reasoning behind it?

The NSA umps were extremely professional and did well, but admitted some calls were tough on them from the new positions.

 

[EsqUmp]

Lazy mechanic. Worrying about the 2nd possible call rather than focusing on the 1st call.

 

[irishmafia]

So I played my first NSA tournament of the year and the base umps are now basically behind the second baseman when there's no runners on. So basically in short right center field. I'd say in the neighborhood of 70' - 80' from first base.

I guess this is fine, but it's leading to missed calls on close plays at first. The umps Saturday were admitting to having difficulties calling the close plays because of the new positioning. The angle is bad and the distance makes them more difficult. Most of them were honest with us in not liking it.

This especially becomes weird with 2 outs when all of the infielders are in the grass. With the mid 25' or so deeper than second base and the second baseman basically in really short right center, this puts is base ump in short right center field (because he has to be behind the fielders).

The story is this is the new positioning by NSA Umpire in Chief for it's umps. I'm guessing the reasoning is safety, but it's making things difficult on the umps (by their own admission). You're basically asking guys to make calls from more than 70' away.

Have any of you NSA umps been using this new positioning this year and how do you like it? Maybe you could shed some light on the reasoning behind it?

The NSA umps were extremely professional and did well, but admitted some calls were tough on them from the new positions.

What a load of ****. ASA has been putting their BU in a two-umpire, sp game in the "B" position for five years or so. If the umpires have a problem with it, it is because they are choosing not to hustle and get in the proper position.

With no runners on, the BU should be about 6' off F4's left shoulder. The umpire should not have any different an angle than if they started on the line. It was studied and tested. If someone has a problem, don't blame the mechanic, it works.

Lazy mechanic. Worrying about the 2nd possible call rather than focusing on the 1st call.

Wrong.

 

[NCASAUmp]

What a load of ****. ASA has been putting their BU in a two-umpire, sp game in the "B" position for five years or so. If the umpires have a problem with it, it is because they are choosing not to hustle and get in the proper position.

With no runners on, the BU should be about 6' off F4's left shoulder. The umpire should not have any different an angle than if they started on the line. It was studied and tested. If someone has a problem, don't blame the mechanic, it works.

Agreed. Being in this position allows me to get there easily, even with a busted wheel.

 

[spos21ram]

I like USSSA's positioning much better. I'm 3 feet from first base.

 

[SevenBizzos]

With no runners on, the BU should be about 6' off F4's left shoulder. The umpire should not have any different an angle than if they started on the line. It was studied and tested. If someone has a problem, don't blame the mechanic, it works.

This was the weird part of it. The ump was behind the right shouler of F4. He was between F4 and Mid.

 

[eddieq]

I've seen this positioning at high school games this year as well.

 

[irishmafia]

This was the weird part of it. The ump was behind the right shouler of F4. He was between F4 and Mid.

Then NSA's mechanic is different from the others, or this umpire did not understand it.

The mechanic and positioning is the same as if there was a runner on 1st only.

 

[irishmafia]

I've seen this positioning at high school games this year as well.

They still play SP in HS in the Lehigh Vally area? Or are you saying FP umpires are starting there?

 

[dmac44]

Being an NSA umpire, the reason that they told us was in order to be able to get out and make fly ball calls by the field umpire. What they've basically done is give all flyball catches/traps to the field umpire (which makes sense because he's so much closer) and give all line drive and infield calls to the home plate umpire. The field umpire still has calls at first and second base and the home plate umpire has calls at third and home. I actually like the mechanic, but you're right...it does give you a bad angle at first base calls. For some of the umpires who are older, it might as well be a coin flip situation. The mechanic is actually designed and intended to keep umpire from being lazy because the field umpire is supposed to go out toward all line drive/flyballs and get a better look at the catch. Thoughts on this?

 

[NCASAUmp]

Being an NSA umpire, the reason that they told us was in order to be able to get out and make fly ball calls by the field umpire. What they've basically done is give all flyball catches/traps to the field umpire (which makes sense because he's so much closer) and give all line drive and infield calls to the home plate umpire. The field umpire still has calls at first and second base and the home plate umpire has calls at third and home. I actually like the mechanic, but you're right...it does give you a bad angle at first base calls. For some of the umpires who are older, it might as well be a coin flip situation. The mechanic is actually designed and intended to keep umpire from being lazy because the field umpire is supposed to go out toward all line drive/flyballs and get a better look at the catch. Thoughts on this?

When the base umpire goes out to call fair/foul/catch/no-catch, do they stay out for the remainder of the play? Or are they expected to come back into the diamond to make calls on the bases?

 

[BretMan]

The NSA umpire manual is on-line...it will answer some of these questions. My hardcopy manual is two years old and it looks like they've totally rewritten it.

Link: NSA Umpire Manual

Their stated reason for going to this mechanic:

The game of slow pitch has changed so dramatically. The base mechanics for umpiring in a two man system are archaic, dangerous and just not adequate for what is going on in the field. We are doing the players a disservice by using mechanics that were put in place over 50 years ago. The infielders are starting 15 or sometimes 20 feet behind the base paths as the ball is coming at them so fast. Does not matter whether it is the ball, bat or both; it just is. They are also using a deep 5 man infield many times. Our job is to give them the best game we can but also be “safe”.

The premise is this: You just cannot get inside like we all think you should. You definitely should not be “cheating” by standing next to second base in front of the fielders. The only things that come of trying to do either is:

1) You getting blasted,
2) You do not get inside like you think you should be; and have a straight on angle
3) You get in the way.

All of these scenarios are doing a disservice to the game, players and yourself. The game has morphed, where our priority should be outfield plays. The game has evolved dramatically and the fielders are playing so deep, the outfield is where most of the action is.
The outside field umpire mechanic has been utilized in fast pitch for shorter bases for many years. It is time to do slow-pitch a service and adopt these changes. These are not designed to be lazy or to not; still have your partner‟s back. On the contrary; just like when you played, someone has somewhere to go and something to do all the time.

To answer some of the other questions:

- They don't instruct the base umpire to go out and make all fly ball calls. They still have the plate umpire taking fly balls that are on the lines. The base umpire is responsible for the middle section of the outfield.

- Yes, they do still expect the base umpire to make calls on the infield at first and second base after making the call on the fly ball. This would seem counterproductive. If you need to go to the outfield, then you should be in the outfield. They state that the base umpire should just turn in-place and make the catch/no catch call, then turn back around and be in position to make the base call.

To me, this seems like you're going to have an umpire who is neither in the best position to make the fly ball call nor the best position to make the infield/base call. He's kind of "splitting the difference" to the detriment of both calls.

 

[NCASAUmp]

The NSA umpire manual is on-line...it will answer some of these questions. My hardcopy manual is two years old and it looks like they've totally rewritten it.

NSA Umpire Manual

You know, I find it remarkable that some of these organizations have existed for so many years, but never bothered to write down and tell their umpires how to do their jobs out there.

It's good that NSA has finally done so, but there are others that have been around for over 40 years that still don't have an Umpire Manual.

 

[eddieq]

They still play SP in HS in the Lehigh Vally area? Or are you saying FP umpires are starting there?

Sorry, yes, I was saying that at the girls HS FP games (PIAA, which uses NFHS as its base ruleset), with 2 umpires, I've seen the base ump starting behind F4's right shoulder with no runners on base. It doesn't seem to be consistent, though, as in the same game, I saw the base ump start over in foul territory by first base with no runners on base.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[dmac44]

The NSA umpire manual is on-line...it will answer some of these questions. My hardcopy manual is two years old and it looks like they've totally rewritten it.

Link: NSA Umpire Manual

Their stated reason for going to this mechanic:

The game of slow pitch has changed so dramatically. The base mechanics for umpiring in a two man system are archaic, dangerous and just not adequate for what is going on in the field. We are doing the players a disservice by using mechanics that were put in place over 50 years ago. The infielders are starting 15 or sometimes 20 feet behind the base paths as the ball is coming at them so fast. Does not matter whether it is the ball, bat or both; it just is. They are also using a deep 5 man infield many times. Our job is to give them the best game we can but also be “safe”.

The premise is this: You just cannot get inside like we all think you should. You definitely should not be “cheating” by standing next to second base in front of the fielders. The only things that come of trying to do either is:

1) You getting blasted,
2) You do not get inside like you think you should be; and have a straight on angle
3) You get in the way.

All of these scenarios are doing a disservice to the game, players and yourself. The game has morphed, where our priority should be outfield plays. The game has evolved dramatically and the fielders are playing so deep, the outfield is where most of the action is.
The outside field umpire mechanic has been utilized in fast pitch for shorter bases for many years. It is time to do slow-pitch a service and adopt these changes. These are not designed to be lazy or to not; still have your partner‟s back. On the contrary; just like when you played, someone has somewhere to go and something to do all the time.

To answer some of the other questions:

- They don't instruct the base umpire to go out and make all fly ball calls. They still have the plate umpire taking fly balls that are on the lines. The base umpire is responsible for the middle section of the outfield.

- Yes, they do still expect the base umpire to make calls on the infield at first and second base after making the call on the fly ball. This would seem counterproductive. If you need to go to the outfield, then you should be in the outfield. They state that the base umpire should just turn in-place and make the catch/no catch call, then turn back around and be in position to make the base call.

To me, this seems like you're going to have an umpire who is neither in the best position to make the fly ball call nor the best position to make the infield/base call. He's kind of "splitting the difference" to the detriment of both calls.

Correct, the plate umpire takes all balls that move toward either line. But honestly, for most fly ball/line drive catches, it is a matter of 4 or 5 steps to get a clear view and then 4 or 5 steps to get a good angle at a call at second. So, it's not that much movement if you think about it. The way balls are hit nowadays, it may on be 2 steps by the time it gets to the outfield at the C level or above.

 

[irishmafia]

Well, that is certainly different, but I who has 3rd when there is a cut-off of the throw home? Good luck with that.

 

[Gulf Coast Blue]

I like USSSA's positioning much better. I'm 3 feet from first base.

That is much too close.

Joel

 

[irishmafia]

That is much too close.

Joel

At any time for any type of call.

 

[steveosh]

must be a regional new rule cause that is not what the position is for NSA ontario... no runners on the position is approx 10' up the line and 2-3 in foul territory.. with runners at first of second or both, the ump should be either behind second base or behind the F4 player a step into the grass... but that all depends on the positioning of the second baseman. F4 will shift left to right depending on if a right or left batter is at the plate

 

[EAJuggalo]

Or that is the positioning for either NSA in the US or your rule in Ontario is regional. It would help if you would list your location as Canada in your profile since there certainly seem to be a lot of differences between rules in NSA US and NSA Canada.

 

[dmac44]

Or that is the positioning for either NSA in the US or your rule in Ontario is regional. It would help if you would list your location as Canada in your profile since there certainly seem to be a lot of differences between rules in NSA US and NSA Canada.

If there is a play at home, what I have done is just rotate and follow the runner to 3rd to make sure that there would be an umpire on top of every play.