USSSA Not sure if this was asked, sorry if dupe

[Moose40]

Last night, other team is hitting, guy on 1st and 2nd, batter hits fly ball to LC. Our LC camps under the ball, causing runners to go back to tag up. LC drops the ball, so runners take off. At this time we hear "heads up", runner that started at 2nd base rounds 3rd at roughly the same time as the ball from the other field hits third base and rolls between third and the pitcher. The throw from the LC'er was a bit off, and my third baseman missed it, partly due to the "extra" ball rolling by his feet.

the runner scored, the other runners stayed at 2nd and 1st. Ump then calls time and walks out to me, (I'm pitching) and says, "I've never had that happen, so I'm not sure what to call". I said, "I'm not sure either, I know that before play starts, we've had you (umps) pause the game because a ball comes into the field of play"
The ump says "I'm going to let the play stand as is, unless you want to discuss this with the other team"
I said, "I'm not sure what to discuss, I think my fielder would have had a shot at throwing home had he not stopped because of the rolling ball, but I'm not sure that is anything I can appeal"
The other team came out and said "At worst, if you want to put the runner back on third, we'd accept that"
My 2nd baseman and I said, that's almost a do over and let the play stand.

Just wondering, at what point does a ball coming into the field of play, from another game, warrant a "time" call, if at all?

Is it correct to let the play go, is it correct to put the guy back on third?

--This has no bearing on the outcome, since their next batter blooped one into shallow cf, so the runner would have scored regardless.
Just curious what other umps would call in this scenario.
Thanks

 

[IrishBlue]

First and second thoughts

My initial thoughts were that this could be spectator interference but I quickly realised that this only relates to a spectator reaching in and affecting the defence's ability to make a play (Catch the ball).

I ended up going to rule 10.1 and the umpire can make decisions on any situation not specifically covered in the rules.

I don't have my casebook to hand but there might be something in there so I will defer to anyone who can quote that.

Ultimately I believe the umpires could have awarded all bases they felt appropriate and I think that from the original post, parking the runners on 1 and 2 and letting the run score was the right thing to do.

 

[Moose40]

My initial thoughts were that this could be spectator interference but I quickly realised that this only relates to a spectator reaching in and affecting the defence's ability to make a play (Catch the ball).

I ended up going to rule 10.1 and the umpire can make decisions on any situation not specifically covered in the rules.

I don't have my casebook to hand but there might be something in there so I will defer to anyone who can quote that.

Ultimately I believe the umpires could have awarded all bases they felt appropriate and I think that from the original post, parking the runners on 1 and 2 and letting the run score was the right thing to do.

Thanks for your comment, I agree letting the run score probably was right. It was just a weird situation, with it being the first time I've had a ball come into another field, and "somewhat" affect the play. Putting the somewhat in quotes because I believe my third baseman gets the ball and holds the runner at third if he doesn't slow down because he doesn't want to trip/step on the ball.

 

[IrishBlue]

Judgement

Moose,

Judgement rules on this. You were there and I wasn't so your judgement out ranks mine and I defer to that buuuuuuut plate umpire's judgement trumps us both and we all have to defer to that.

 

[Moose40]

Moose,

Judgement rules on this. You were there and I wasn't so your judgement out ranks mine and I defer to that buuuuuuut plate umpire's judgement trumps us both and we all have to defer to that.

Thanks IrishBlue.
Exactly, his judgement stood, I did appreciate him coming out to the mound to tell me his decision, and the fact that he admitted he wasn't sure what to do based on him never experiencing a second ball coming into the field during a live play before, but to his credit, there was no criteria telling him to do different then letting the play stand, all I could do was accept it.
I fully agree there was no (in my opinion) other factors other then the "extra" ball on the field, so the play result, even though went sort of against us, I was fine with it.

 

[Illegal pitcher]

Did you guys see this play last month? A ball came out of the bullpen, and it cost the Indians an out. A BS call (IMHO), especially since the ball came from the Reds bullpen.
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=35110365&c_id=mlb&topic_id=vtp_must_c

 

[EAJuggalo]

Unless the ball causes something else to happen that affects the play it's a live ball play on. Rule 10-10-F:

F. In case of injury or some incident, unforeseen before a batter hits a FAIR
BALL, “TIME” shall not be called with the ball in play until all plays in progress
have been completed, or the base runners have stopped at their bases.

Other than injury, because where you play has local rules that supersede this, I'm not calling time.

What field was this on?

 

[markf]

I agree saying the run scores. Mainly because you cant determine the what would have happened (does the third baseman catch it and relay it properly and accurately, does the catcher catch it, and do you get the tag at home.) but at that point I think all play stops right there. Leaving you with guys on first and second (because they arent trying to advance) and the RBI.

 

[joncon]

I don't know the rule but, congratulations to the ump and teams for settling this logically and peacefully on the field.

I like the 10.1 "**** happens" rule.

 

[Moose40]

Unless the ball causes something else to happen that affects the play it's a live ball play on. Rule 10-10-F:
Other than injury, because where you play has local rules that supersede this, I'm not calling time.

What field was this on?

The only thing the ball caused was for my third baseman to stop moving towards the ball coming in from the outfield and the "legal" ball went to the fence by the third base dugout. (doesn't that constitute "something else happening that affects the play?)
You've umped us enough to know Pat is very good at positioning himself to get the ball. I'm 99.9% positive had the other ball not been there, he gets the ball.
Now, to say that if the throw did go home, that our catcher catches it, that's another story
Northview 1, and again, I'm not complaining, I was simply asking umpires here if they ever had something like this happen, and what they would rule.

sounds like general consensus is that it's a live ball, play counts as it happened. Just one of those odd quirks that had a slight bearing on one specific play.

 

[Moose40]

I don't know the rule but, congratulations to the ump and teams for settling this logically and peacefully on the field.

I like the 10.1 "**** happens" rule.

The nice thing is, we've played the other team several times over the past 9 years, so there is a lot of friendly chirping back and forth, so even they offered to put the guy back on third. Funny thing is EA has umped me enough to know that sometimes I get hot under the collar, so props to the umpire for handling it the way he did. It was nice for him to just state what he saw and what he was thinking in a manner that came across as "we're all adults, I might be making a mistake, but based on the information I know, this is what I'm calling".

 

[MrWilliams]

In a youth game would there be any justification for calling time if there was a chance a player could trip over the stray ball? The associations I work have local rules (guidelines, perhaps more accurately) that stress player safety but nothing specific. If the umpire doesn't call time and a player sprains an ankle I could see a parent having a fit and blaming the umpire for the injury since he didn't call time "according to the rules".

 

[EAJuggalo]

This is another incident where the rules written for championship play don't always take into account league play. Moose, I'll bring it up with Keith the next time I see him and see what he would like us to call. I could see both sides of it where we don't want to penalize the defensive team for something that happened outside the control of anyone involved in the game, maybe if you had the runner dead to rights at the plate I'd send him back. Was the umpire a bit bigger than you with glasses and a beard? The guy who was scheduled for you field, I'm surprised he came up with a reasonable solution on his own.

MrWilliams, depends on where I'm at. League or local tourney I'd probably stop play just because of how many of the players would be confused and have no idea what is going on. State or above I'm not calling time.

 

[USA All the wAy]

Play on people/kids.