Any Proper Way to make an appeal

[Coonass]

No runners on. Batter runner hits a ball to left field, on his was to 2b his misses first but arrives safely at 2b.

As a coach for the defensive team how would you go about making an appeal that the runner missed first base?

Would the process change if that runner scored an in the park home run?

 

[NCASAUmp]

Depends on the association.

In ASA, you have two options:
Live ball appeal: While the ball is still live, any fielder can tag the missed base or the runner with the ball and appeal to the umpire that the runner missed that particular base.

Dead ball appeal: Once time has been called, any infielder can appeal to the umpire that the base was missed by a particular runner. The ball does not need to be thrown.

I believe that in USSSA, the process is the exact same with the exception of the dead ball appeal. In a dead ball appeal, the defense must still throw to that base and tag it.

Someone else will need to clarify the USSSA portion, just in case I got that wrong.

 

[pompetti]

Depends on the association.

In ASA, you have two options:
Live ball appeal: While the ball is still live, any fielder can tag the missed base or the runner with the ball and appeal to the umpire that the runner missed that particular base.

Dead ball appeal: Once time has been called, any infielder can appeal to the umpire that the base was missed by a particular runner. The ball does not need to be thrown.

I believe that in USSSA, the process is the exact same with the exception of the dead ball appeal. In a dead ball appeal, the defense must still throw to that base and tag it.

Someone else will need to clarify the USSSA portion, just in case I got that wrong.

USSSA states that the ball becomes live only for the purpose of the appeal. My question would be what if the ball is dead, they appeal but don't throw the ball to the base in question and the umpire calls the runner out.

Can the offensive team protest the game because the appeal wasn't executed properly? USSSA says only one appeal is allowed per runner. Would the improper appeal result in double-jeopardy?

I've been playing USSSA for 10 years and only remember a handful of times where the defense actually threw the ball to the base on a dead ball appeal. Most times appeals are made by pointing at a base stating, "Runner who started on that base left early" etc and the appeal is upheld/denied. Could it be a wily ump is denying the appeal due to the improper appeal even if the runner really did leave early? Sort of like the delayed safe call at home when the runner missed the base but still beat the throw?

 

[TonyB]

USSSA states that the ball becomes live only for the purpose of the appeal.

So, would the runner be able to run back to the bag, and if it's bobbled/dropped/overthrown, become safe?

 

[pompetti]

So, would the runner be able to run back to the bag, and if it's bobbled/dropped/overthrown, become safe?

There's 2 answers:

1) The dead ball appeal can't be made until the umpire signals "Play Ball". That won't happen if a runner is still off the base. A live ball appeal, a runner would be safe if they get back to the base in question before the ball is securely held by the defense whilst touching the base.

2) If during the dead ball appeal, the overthrow does happen and the ball goes out of play, the rule book states:

Rule 6, Section 12 D:

When a ball is thrown into a dead ball area, the team forfeits their right for a second appeal on any runner. I interpret that as the runner is safe.

 

[EAJuggalo]

I was told by my local UIC that the ball did not have to be thrown, and that any defensive player in the field could make the appeal. Of course reading the book again I see that the rule states the pitcher has to make the appeal and while the rule doesn't explicitly state the ball must be thrown to the base subsection D doesn't make any sense otherwise. I'll be calling my leagues based on what my UIC told me until I hear differently from someone higher up.

 

[NCASAUmp]

I was told by my local UIC that the ball did not have to be thrown, and that any defensive player in the field could make the appeal. Of course reading the book again I see that the rule states the pitcher has to make the appeal and while the rule doesn't explicitly state the ball must be thrown to the base subsection D doesn't make any sense otherwise. I'll be calling my leagues based on what my UIC told me until I hear differently from someone higher up.

Correct, USSSA doesn't come out and say it. However, in USSSA 9-2-U, they refer to the "execution of an appeal play" after a dead ball. I would interpret that to mean that there needs to be some sort of action by the defense.

For what it's worth, back in 1995 and 1996, my area's USSSA UIC told me that the ball did need to be thrown. But that was over 16 years ago.

 

[Coonass]

Thanks or the replay fellas.

So for USSSA my understanding is if the base was missed and the ball is live to simply throw the ball to the base and have the fielder touch the bag or if the ball is dead have the pitcher throw to the base in question?

Am I correct on this?

 

[EAJuggalo]

Yes but you may also be required to verbally state what you are appealing, i.e. that the runner left early or missed the base. One of the more likely scenarios is that you will attempt a live ball appeal but the umpire may call time before it gets there. Then you would have to make a dead ball appeal which can't be done until the umpire gives you the signal to pitch.

 

[flatstick96]

I just wanted to bump this up because I saw something similar happen last night, and I'd never quite seen it go down in this way before:

Batter hits the ball and ends up on 2nd. 1st baseman for the fielding teams calls for the ball because he knows the batter missed 1B. Ball is thrown to him, and he tags 1B.

Umpire doesn't say anything, so the pitcher says: "We'd like to appeal. He missed first base."

Umpire says: "You said HE missed 1B. For a proper appeal you have to specifically identify WHO missed 1B. Because you didn't do that, it's an incorrect appeal, and the runner is safe."

Now, there was no base runner on 1st when the play started, so there's really only one person in the whole ballpark that the fielding team could be referring to when they said "he" - but for this particular ump, that apparently wasn't clear enough.

So the question is: EXACTLY how are are you supposed to identify the player whose actions you are appealing?

 

[NCASAUmp]

I just wanted to bump this up because I saw something similar happen last night, and I'd never quite seen it go down in this way before:

Batter hits the ball and ends up on 2nd. 1st baseman for the fielding teams calls for the ball because he knows the batter missed 1B. Ball is thrown to him, and he tags 1B.

Umpire doesn't say anything, so the pitcher says: "We'd like to appeal. He missed first base."

Umpire says: "You said HE missed 1B. For a proper appeal you have to specifically identify WHO missed 1B. Because you didn't do that, it's an incorrect appeal, and the runner is safe."

Now, there was no base runner on 1st when the play started, so there's really only one person in the whole ballpark that the fielding team could be referring to when they said "he" - but for this particular ump, that apparently wasn't clear enough.

So the question is: EXACTLY how are are you supposed to identify the player whose actions you are appealing?

Just as a matter of housekeeping, you might want to specify a ruleset. Each ruleset has different takes on what is a proper appeal, and when you may appeal.

In this situation, there's only ONE person who COULD have missed first, and that's the batter-runner. Even with a runner on 1st, he started on 1st, so how could he miss it? It had to have been the batter-runner.

I think in this case, that umpire picked a nit that didn't need picking.

However, USSSA does allow only one appeal per runner. So let's say a guy hits a triple and touches 1st, but misses 2nd. If you appeal that he missed 1st base, then you lost your shot at appealing him missing 2nd base. Kinda lame, if you ask me.

You should always specify which runner you're appealing, and you should always specify which base they missed or whether they didn't tag up on a caught fly ball.

 

[flatstick96]

Sorry, good point - it was ASA.

 

[NCASAUmp]

Sorry, good point - it was ASA.

I'd have accepted the appeal. It was "proper enough" for me.

In ASA, you are allowed to clarify what you meant during your appeal, and you can have more than one appeal on a single runner.

 

[flatstick96]

So in this case, if the pitcher had said something like "The batter missed 1B" instead of "he missed 1B" that would have been OK, I'm guessing. What if the pitcher had said it just the way he did (using only "he" as a reference to the batter) but he pointed at the player in question - would that physical gesture suffice to satisfy the rule of properly specifying which runner you are appealing?

I agree with you that this seemed like a "nit not worth picking". I actually got the impression that the ump wasn't paying attention to the batter when the batter rounded first - there were runners on 2nd and 3rd when the play started, and they both came around to score, and there was a throw to the plate to try and get the guy scoring from 2nd (though it wasn't a close play at the plate, at all). Point is, there were other things to be keeping an eye on as the play unfolded, and the ump was working this game by himself. I don't think he saw what happened at 1B, and I think he chose to "pick this nit" instead of just admitting that he didn't see what happened.

Ultimately it didn't have an impact on the final outcome, but it was the first time I'd seen this call made, and I wanted to clarify it to make sure my own team appeals correctly in the future. Sounds like the bottom line is: be specific about the player you're referencing, and be specific about which of his (or her) actions you're appealing.

 

[flatstick96]

In ASA, you are allowed to clarify what you meant during your appeal, and you can have more than one appeal on a single runner.

Now that is very interesting; after the initial denial of the appeal as described above, the fielding team attempted to clarify their appeal, but the umpire clearly told them that they blew their one and only shot at it, and that the batter was ruled safe because the appeal wasn't clear enough.

Maybe its worth noting that MOST tournaments played in this area are USSSA tournaments, and this particular umpire was one I've never seen umping in this particular ASA league (and I've been playing in it for 10 years, so I know pretty much all of the "regular" umps at least by face if not by name). Maybe he's kinda new to ASA (though I don't think he's new to umpiring in general, as he generally seemed to have a pretty good grasp of what he was doing).

I've definitely learned something here.

 

[NCASAUmp]

Two things have to be clear: who you're appealing, and what you're appealing.

You can say "that guy" while pointing, you can say "the batter," you can say "the runner standing on second," you can even call out their number.

As long as those two things are clear to me, the umpire, that's good enough for me.

It sounds like your umpire confused a USSSA rule for ASA. You would've had a valid protest.

 

[flatstick96]

Thanks for the education - there's a lot of good knowledge here in the "Ask The Umpire" section of this forum. Now I know how to handle this rule if it ever comes up again.