Any rule question about overrunning/not touching 1st base.

[NoRangeAg]

This was posted by jfh in another section (http://forums.softballfans.com/showthread.php?t=883542). I took it upon myself to post it here. I figure NCASAump will at least know the answer for ASA. Any for USSSA?

question about a rule that i dont see often.

batter/runner hits an infield grounder, poor throw to first pulls 1B off the bag, 1B tries to get the runner with a swipe tag and misses, as the batter runner avoids the tag, they miss the base.

i've been told that once the batter/runner runs past the bag, the force has been nullified and the batter/runner must be tagged for the out and 1B cant just step on the base for the out.

true/false? anybody have the actual rule in the book? is it the same at every base?

 

[sleak112]

If I recall if the runner doesn't touch 1st for whatever reason then the force is still on.

 

[NoRangeAg]

I thought so too. I know that is the ruling in MLB baseball but others pointed out that in ASA you are assumed to have legally attained a base once you've passed it so you would have to tag the runner. Wondered what the exact ruling would be per association, i looked through the ASA and USSSA rules and didn't see a ruling that addressed this exact situation.

 

[koz]

The b/r must be tagged out before returning to first base. This not an appeal play.

 

[NCASAUmp]

The b/r must be tagged out before returning to first base. This not an appeal play.

Actually, it IS an appeal play.

The batter-runner is forced to run to first base on a fair batted ball. If the batter-runner misses first base, the defense may appeal by tagging the runner or tagging the base (and also making it clear to the umpire why they're doing so) before the batter-runner returns to touch EITHER the white or colored portion of base.

This appeal would count as a force play, as the batter-runner has not yet legally advanced to first base. Why is this important? Well, if the bases are loaded with two outs, a successful appeal would nullify any runs from scoring.

 

[NoRangeAg]

Actually, it IS an appeal play.

The batter-runner is forced to run to first base on a fair batted ball. If the batter-runner misses first base, the defense may appeal by tagging the runner or tagging the base (and also making it clear to the umpire why they're doing so) before the batter-runner returns to touch EITHER the white or colored portion of base.

This appeal would count as a force play, as the batter-runner has not yet legally advanced to first base. Why is this important? Well, if the bases are loaded with two outs, a successful appeal would nullify any runs from scoring.

Now, for arguments sake, how does this coordinate with the rule that states once you pass a bag you have attained it. Wouldn't that wording indicate that a force would no longer be in affect?

 

[DeputyUICHousto]

I believe...

Now, for arguments sake, how does this coordinate with the rule that states once you pass a bag you have attained it. Wouldn't that wording indicate that a force would no longer be in affect?

the wording says "the batter/runner (or runner) is assumed to have touched the base..." or words to that effect.

 

[irishmafia]

Now, for arguments sake, how does this coordinate with the rule that states once you pass a bag you have attained it. Wouldn't that wording indicate that a force would no longer be in affect?

Okay, STOP! It is not a force play at 1B. By definition, it is not possible to have a force play at 1B.

The rules treat 1B the same as all other bases. There are no special rules for missing 1B. If appealed properly and the result caused that BR (or forced runner at another base) to not have attained that base safely, all ramifications of a force out or BR not reaching 1B safely are effected.

 

[BretMan]

I know that is the ruling in MLB baseball but others pointed out that in ASA you are assumed to have legally attained a base once you've passed it...

That's not just "an ASA thing". It is a basic rule in ALL baseball and softball rule sets. A runner missing a base, but passing it, is assummed to have touched it until/unless properly appealed.

There are some minor differences in the appeal process between MLB and ASA, but the rule about missing the base is still the same.