ASA Ruling

[ilyk2win]

Runners at 1st and 2nd
Base hit to RF
Runner from 2B attempts to score
Throw to the plate arrives as runner slides safely at home
Ball escapes catcher and hits player(s) standing outside the dugout (in foul territory on the field) from batting team
Does run score?
Is anyone ruled out?
Where are runners placed?

I believe in USSSA the runner closest to home is OUT? Would that be the runner who scored before contact, or the runner closest to home at the time of interference?

 

[EAJuggalo]

For ASA, The ball is dead when it strikes anyone outside the dugout other than someone allowed to be outside the dugout, the run scores, if the umpire believes the ball striking someone not involved in the game prevented the defense from making a play, they may call out the runner that the play could have been made on. It is not an automatic out. Runners return to the last base legally acquired prior to the blocked ball.

For USSSA, the runner closest to home is automatically called out if the offensive team or their equipment not being used in the game cause a blocked ball. In your scenario, the runner that started at 1B would be called out. You never take a run off the board as the runner was no longer on the bases when the blocked ball occurred.

 

[eddieq]

@EAJuggalo is right. In USA/ASA softball, that's a blocked ball. Once the ball is blocked it becomes dead and then you (umpire you) have decisions to make. Did it deprive the defense of a chance to make an out? If that's a yes, then you have interference and the runner closest to home is declared out. If that's a no, then any runners return to the last base touched at the time the ball became blocked. If the run had already scored at that time then they still score. If they had not reached the plate at the time, they are most likely the runner closest to home and out.

If you get an out there AND it's the third out, any runs scored before the ball became blocked would still count.

USSSA with an automatic out there just leaves it open for the defense to throw at team members outside of the dugout trying to get a cheap out. It's also rewarding the defense for not being able to throw/catch. Next we'll be rewarding them for lollygagging. Not that slowpitch players would do such a thing, of course.

 

[stang7222]

USSSA with an automatic out there just leaves it open for the defense to throw at team members outside of the dugout trying to get a cheap out. It's also rewarding the defense for not being able to throw/catch. Next we'll be rewarding them for lollygagging. Not that slowpitch players would do such a thing, of cocourse.

I have a teammate that has done this. The first time we saw it called was a bad throw by the LF. After that he was waiting for the chance to do it on purpose. Team full of assholes were outside their dugout all game talking smack in Wednesday night league ball. Throw comes in to him at SS from the OF and he threw a bullet at them. Pegged a guy in the back and the runner that held up at 3b was out anyway. Probably the funniest thing I've ever seen on the field.

 

[EAJuggalo]

USSSA with an automatic out there just leaves it open for the defense to throw at team members outside of the dugout trying to get a cheap out. It's also rewarding the defense for not being able to throw/catch. Next we'll be rewarding them for lollygagging. Not that slowpitch players would do such a thing, of course.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Don't want to listen when I tell you to keep your guys in the dugout, you deserve the out. If the ball hits a member of the defensive team outside their dugout it's automatically dead and everyone gets two bases, why not penalize the offense for it? Now if I feel the throw was intentional, then we're going to have an out and an ejection of the player that threw it.

 

[eddieq]

That's fair, @EAJuggalo. And you're right - you can tell when someone is making a bad throw or making a deliberate throw to hit the players.

 

[ilyk2win]

I 100% agree......stay in the GD dugout! I've let a loose ball roll before hoping for the free out.

 

[nike33kjk]

What applies in senior ball? SSUSA, NSA, ISA.
Can't tell you how many times I've wanted to airmail the third baseman from the outfield....

 

[stang7222]

What applies in senior ball? SSUSA, NSA, ISA.
Can't tell you how many times I've wanted to airmail the third baseman from the outfield....

We had a bad throw hit the other team's bats lined up oitside the dugout earlier this year in 40+ usssa. Runner closest to the plate was out.

 

[UncleMosk]

Bases loaded. Hit in the hole between 56. Runner on 2nd scores. Ump comes out and calls out the runner who scored on 2nd claiming he didn't touch 3rd. No one asked the ump he simply called it out on his own. Took the momentum from us.

So is the ump correct or the other team had to ask?

 

[ilyk2win]

Bases loaded. Hit in the hole between 56. Runner on 2nd scores. Ump comes out and calls out the runner who scored on 2nd claiming he didn't touch 3rd. No one asked the ump he simply called it out on his own. Took the momentum from us.

So is the ump correct or the other team had to ask?

Incorrect. Appeal play.

 

[UncleMosk]

Incorrect. Appeal play.

Lol. Ump texts me after game with "Sorry" I made the wrong call.

Too little too late!

 

[eddieq]

Lol. Ump texts me after game with "Sorry" I made the wrong call.

Too little too late!

Yeah, that's unfortunate. At least he recognized his error (or someone corrected him) and he admitted it. As an umpire, I always try to learn something new if I can each time. Looks like he learned a lesson at your expense.

 

[ilyk2win]

While the umpire exceeded his authority on that play, let's not overlook that the RUNNER missed a vital responsibility of base running.....touching the base!!!

 

[Sailorjoe6308]

@EAJuggalo is right. In USA/ASA softball, that's a blocked ball. Once the ball is blocked it becomes dead and then you (umpire you) have decisions to make. Did it deprive the defense of a chance to make an out? If that's a yes, then you have interference and the runner closest to home is declared out. If that's a no, then any runners return to the last base touched at the time the ball became blocked. If the run had already scored at that time then they still score. If they had not reached the plate at the time, they are most likely the runner closest to home and out.

If you get an out there AND it's the third out, any runs scored before the ball became blocked would still count.

USSSA with an automatic out there just leaves it open for the defense to throw at team members outside of the dugout trying to get a cheap out. It's also rewarding the defense for not being able to throw/catch. Next we'll be rewarding them for lollygagging. Not that slowpitch players would do such a thing, of course.

Hang on so in USSSA the runner is automatically out no matter what? So if the person outside the dugout is the defensive team's manager or one of their players not in the game at that time how does that factor in? Would that award the runners a one base advancement? I only ask because there's a team that plays in my local tournaments who's manager/player is almost never in the dugout and has been hit by a ball multiple times.

 

[EAJuggalo]

Hang on so in USSSA the runner is automatically out no matter what? So if the person outside the dugout is the defensive team's manager or one of their players not in the game at that time how does that factor in? Would that award the runners a one base advancement? I only ask because there's a team that plays in my local tournaments who's manager/player is almost never in the dugout and has been hit by a ball multiple times.

In USSSA if a live ball hits someone from the offensive team or their equipment not allowed to be on the field by rule, i.e. anyone other than a runner, base coach, on deck batter or the bat just used by the batter. It is a blocked ball, dead ball and the runner nearest to home is called out. If the ball hits a member of the defensive team or their equipment other than the 10 players in the game on defense. It is a blocked ball, dead ball and each runner is awarded two bases from where they were when the ball was touched.

 

[Sailorjoe6308]

In USSSA if a live ball hits someone from the offensive team or their equipment not allowed to be on the field by rule, i.e. anyone other than a runner, base coach, on deck batter or the bat just used by the batter. It is a blocked ball, dead ball and the runner nearest to home is called out. If the ball hits a member of the defensive team or their equipment other than the 10 players in the game on defense. It is a blocked ball, dead ball and each runner is awarded two bases from where they were when the ball was touched.

Thank you for clearing that up. Is there a specific rule for that or is this something that any have way decent umpire should know as soon as the event occurs?

 

[EAJuggalo]

USSSA rule 8.5.K covers offense and 8.7.F covers defense and offense. You'll also need to know Rule 3, Blocked ball as both rules reference that.

 

[Sailorjoe6308]

USSSA rule 8.5.K covers offense and 8.7.F covers defense and offense. You'll also need to know Rule 3, Blocked ball as both rules reference that.

Can an umpire making this call issue a warning to the batting team before actually implementing the penalty against them and vice versa for the defensive team? I primarily play WSL but from what I can tell the biggest difference that I see the rules between the two sanctions is the bats that are legal and whether or not the pitcher is required to "toe the rubber."

 

[stang7222]

So today my team threw the ball around a bit and it rolled into no-mans land between home and third. I ran over, picked it up and threw it into the chest of an opposing player not involved in anyway in the play hoping to steal an out. The ump wasn't having any of it though.

 

[Sailorjoe6308]

So today my team threw the ball around a bit and it rolled into no-mans land between home and third. I ran over, picked it up and threw it into the chest of an opposing player not involved in anyway in the play hoping to steal an out. The ump wasn't having any of it though.

That I would consider something a defensive player deliberately did and as such wouldn't think that this rule would apply to.

 

[EAJuggalo]

Can an umpire making this call issue a warning to the batting team before actually implementing the penalty against them and vice versa for the defensive team? I primarily play WSL but from what I can tell the biggest difference that I see the rules between the two sanctions is the bats that are legal and whether or not the pitcher is required to "toe the rubber."

No, by the book, the rule must be enforced. This is what a protest was made for. If the umpire refuses to apply the penalty, the defending team protests and the rule is applied correctly by the UIC. WSL allows the pitching area?

So today my team threw the ball around a bit and it rolled into no-mans land between home and third. I ran over, picked it up and threw it into the chest of an opposing player not involved in anyway in the play hoping to steal an out. The ump wasn't having any of it though.

I'm going to call the out, then eject you for intentionally throwing at somebody. I'll let everyone get pissed off at me on that one.

That I would consider something a defensive player deliberately did and as such wouldn't think that this rule would apply to.

Again, the rule doesn't give any leeway. It's the offensive team members responsibility to not be where they aren't allowed. By the rules, only the runners on base, batter, two base coaches and two on deck batters are allowed on the field of play. Anywhere except a Conference tournament, Worlds or Challenge Cup, I don't care what you're doing, but you are going to be subject to the penalties for doing those things. Those specific events I have to tell you to get back in the dugout or I get yelled at.

 

[stang7222]

I'm going to call the out, then eject you for intentionally throwing at somebody. I'll let everyone get pissed off at me on that onone.

I lobbed the ball underhand from about 5 feet away. The ump wasn't having it though and threatened me with 15 yards for unsportsmanlike conduct. The guy I hit with the ball was the only person involved that didn't have a smile on his face.

 

[Sailorjoe6308]

WSL allows the pitcher to pitch from upto 5ft behind the rubber. I believe this is what you're referring to as the "pitching area". We're still allowed to juke. Though if you choose to perform a juke pitch you have 5 seconds from the time you come set to release the ball. So, juke at your own risk if you don't pitch at a decent pace.