Any Run Scores??

[dirtyd]

One out runners on first and third...

Fly ball to Left field.. Runner on third tags up and scores.. runner on first doesn't tag up gets half way to third.. runs across field never touching second tags first and is then tagged out running to second.. What's the call? When was the runner out? Does the runner from third score?

 

[NCASAUmp]

It depends on why they're tagging him. If they say nothing to me at all and are tagging him while off of a base, it's a live runner getting tagged out. If they say he missed second, I might have to ask them, "what do you mean?" If they say, "on his way back to first," then I've got an out, but the run scores. If they say, "on his way to third base," then I've got an out, and no runs score.

Anyone confused yet?

 

[mazzamouth]

the defense can appeal that he missed 2nd on the way back to 1st ( it is not a automatic out), but since they got the out, on the tag, they probably won't appeal..so this is now a time play, and the run would score..

 

[dirtyd]

It depends on why they're tagging him. If they say nothing to me at all and are tagging him while off of a base, it's a live runner getting tagged out. If they say he missed second, I might have to ask them, "what do you mean?" If they say, "on his way back to first," then I've got an out, but the run scores. If they say, "on his way to third base," then I've got an out, and no runs score.

Anyone confused yet?

Sorry wasn't clear.. Runner was tagged in between first and second while trying to get back to first.. Ball was live the whole tim

 

[jesseb]

If they had just thrown to first instead of tagging him is that considered a force and the run does not score?

 

[EdFred]

It's not a force play, it's an appeal play.

 

[DeputyUICHousto]

Nope

If they had just thrown to first instead of tagging him is that considered a force and the run does not score?

You cannot have a force out on a caught fly ball!!!!

This has been discussed 4 million times (well maybe not that many...but a lot) on this board. I'm reading into the OP that the runner did actually touch 2nd on the way to 3rd and in returning to 1st simply ran back across the diamond. If this is the case then its a timing play and the out occurs when the out occurs. If the runner from 3rd base has already scored then the run counts. If the runner from 3rd has not scored then the run would not count.

 

[LORDV8R]

You cannot have a force out on a caught fly ball!!!!

This has been discussed 4 million times (well maybe not that many...but a lot) on this board. I'm reading into the OP that the runner did actually touch 2nd on the way to 3rd and in returning to 1st simply ran back across the diamond. If this is the case then its a timing play and the out occurs when the out occurs. If the runner from 3rd base has already scored then the run counts. If the runner from 3rd has not scored then the run would not count.

Even if it wasn't a legal tag-up and the runner never made it back to 1st?

 

[NCASAUmp]

You cannot have a force out on a caught fly ball!!!!

This has been discussed 4 million times (well maybe not that many...but a lot) on this board. I'm reading into the OP that the runner did actually touch 2nd on the way to 3rd and in returning to 1st simply ran back across the diamond. If this is the case then its a timing play and the out occurs when the out occurs. If the runner from 3rd base has already scored then the run counts. If the runner from 3rd has not scored then the run would not count.

Don't know why, but I was thinking he had also missed 2nd on his way TO 3rd base. In that case, never mind. I got all sorts of mixed up (easy to do when you don't actually SEE the play).

No, this isn't a force out. Period. It's the third out, and if the runner from 3rd scores before the tag, the run counts.

Even if it wasn't a legal tag-up and the runner never made it back to 1st?

Correct. This is no different from any other situation in which a runner didn't tag up.

Don't know why I overcomplicated the matter here.

 

[USSSA]

the run count, other runner is out if the appeal, or out if they tag him, so much fun to ump, somtimes baserunners are so funny

so many guys have run from home to second in coed and didnt touch first, one of my favs

 

[DeputyUICHousto]

Omg!

Even if it wasn't a legal tag-up and the runner never made it back to 1st?

If the batter is out on the caught fly ball then how the heck can you then have a force out?

What would you have if you started with a runner on 1st base. Batter grounds to SS who throws to 1st to retire batter/runner. Could the runner who started out on 1st base then return to 1st? Of course. The force has been removed!

Same type of situation.

 

[LORDV8R]

If the batter is out on the caught fly ball then how the heck can you then have a force out?

What would you have if you started with a runner on 1st base. Batter grounds to SS who throws to 1st to retire batter/runner. Could the runner who started out on 1st base then return to 1st? Of course. The force has been removed!

Same type of situation.

Quoted the wrong post. Correct post is below. Rule 8 Sec.5-T Didn't read the next page.

It's not a force play, it's an appeal play.

 

[EdFred]

If the batter is out on the caught fly ball then how the heck can you then have a force out?

What would you have if you started with a runner on 1st base. Batter grounds to SS who throws to 1st to retire batter/runner. Could the runner who started out on 1st base then return to 1st? Of course. The force has been removed!

Same type of situation.

Everyone gets confused because when ball beats the runner to the base during an advance and the runner is forced out, then it *must* be a force out when a runner is retreating to a base ona caught ball. What they don't realize is that they are attempting to live ball appeal before the runner returns to the bag. Smart peeps know the difference.

 

[mazzamouth]

It's not a force play, it's an appeal play.

Ding..Ding..Ding....we have a winner...LOL

Its hard to explain on the web, but he is right, your appealing he never tagged up, I know your not verbalizing it, but this by rule is a appeal play.

 

[NCASAUmp]

Ding..Ding..Ding....we have a winner...LOL

Its hard to explain on the web, but he is right, your appealing he never tagged up, I know your not verbalizing it, but this by rule is a appeal play.

...if they're actually appealing that he left early. If they just tag the runner while he's between bases without actually clearly indicating that they are making an appeal, it's just another tag for an out.

And since all they had to do to make the live appeal was throw to first base, I sincerely doubt this is what they were attempting to do.

 

[EdFred]

Follow up question, because yes I've played against some teams with a weak enough OF that we have done this - score from 2nd on a caught fly ball.

1 out. At least 2 runners on. Fly ball caught, runner on 3rd leaves early, other runner(s) do not leave early. All runners advance and score on the play. Appeal is made for the runner leaving 3rd early, and is called out on appeal. Do the other runs count since they would be "behind" the runner that left early, or is that irrelevant?

 

[NCASAUmp]

Follow up question, because yes I've played against some teams with a weak enough OF that we have done this - score from 2nd on a caught fly ball.

1 out. At least 2 runners on. Fly ball caught, runner on 3rd leaves early, other runner(s) do not leave early. All runners advance and score on the play. Appeal is made for the runner leaving 3rd early, and is called out on appeal. Do the other runs count since they would be "behind" the runner that left early, or is that irrelevant?

If there are two outs and you appeal a runner for leaving the base early or for missing a base, no trailing runners behind him/her may score.

Let's say bases are loaded with one out, and the runner on 2nd didn't tag up on a caught fly ball VERY deep in the outfield. All 3 runners on the bases somehow make it home. The runner from 3rd base DOES score, but the runners from 2nd and 1st bases do NOT score.

Make sense?

 

[MrEye]

If there are two outs and you appeal a runner for leaving the base early or for missing a base, no trailing runners behind him/her may score.

Let's say bases are loaded with one out, and the runner on 2nd didn't tag up on a caught fly ball VERY deep in the outfield. All 3 runners on the bases somehow make it home. The runner from 3rd base DOES score, but the runners from 2nd and 1st bases do NOT score.

Make sense?

Change this up to no outs. The catch is 1 out, the appeal to 2nd is out #2. What happens to the runner on first, assuming he's already "scored"?

 

[EdFred]

Make sense?

Yep. Perfectly clear.

 

[NCASAUmp]

Change this up to no outs. The catch is 1 out, the appeal to 2nd is out #2. What happens to the runner on first, assuming he's already "scored"?

He still scores.

 

[mazzamouth]

...if they're actually appealing that he left early. If they just tag the runner while he's between bases without actually clearly indicating that they are making an appeal, it's just another tag for an out.

And since all they had to do to make the live appeal was throw to first base, I sincerely doubt this is what they were attempting to do.

by merely touching the base on a guy who left early is an appeal play, not a force. But i know you know that, they dont have to verbalize that they are appealing the runner left early, we know that.

 

[mazzamouth]

...if they're actually appealing that he left early. If they just tag the runner while he's between bases without actually clearly indicating that they are making an appeal, it's just another tag for an out.

And since all they had to do to make the live appeal was throw to first base, I sincerely doubt this is what they were attempting to do.

by merely touching the base on a guy who left early is an appeal play, not a force. But i know you know that, they dont have to verbalize that they are appealing the runner never tagged back up, we know that.

But yes appealing that a runner left early, yes you must tell us your appealing.

 

[NCASAUmp]

by merely touching the base on a guy who left early is an appeal play, not a force. But i know you know that, they dont have to verbalize that they are appealing the runner never tagged back up, we know that.

But yes appealing that a runner left early, yes you must tell us your appealing.

That's correct. There are no "accidental appeals" in ASA. In order for an appeal to be called, the defense must make it absolutely clear by either their words or actions that they are making an appeal.

Most appeals are quite clear in this regard, but there are some situations where it's not so clear.

 

[hotcorner42]

we got hosed on this one last night! 2nd and 3rd, one out...deep fly ball to left, both runners tag, run scores. appeal to 2nd base, runner out for leaving early...ump said the run doesn't score because of the appeal. i just went with it and figured he knew his ****. oh well, we won the game big anyway.