USSSA Runners Out For Not Changing Course

[BassBlaster]

I know this has been discussed before because Ive read it but I cant seem to find the thread here.

We have one particular ump, my favorite ump actually, that has said on more than one occasion to a runner, "Get out of the way or I'll ring em both up!"

This is in regards specifically to a runner, running from 1st to 2nd who dosnt get out of the way after being thrown out to make it easier for the fielder to make a throw to first for the double play. Now, I know the runner has no duty nor responsibility to change course to help the opposing team make a play. As a runner, I have no idea where that fielder is going to go and in my mind, I'm asking for trouble to try and guess where and what he might do. Ive heard from numerous people that its common courtesy to "peel off" and get out of the way of the play. I think that's completely ridiculous. I also play on a team that will argue with me that the ump is right.

My question is, is there a specific rule written to address this? If so, can someone please post it.

 

[FatBoy28]

I know this has been discussed before because Ive read it but I cant seem to find the thread here.

We have one particular ump, my favorite ump actually, that has said on more than one occasion to a runner, "Get out of the way or I'll ring em both up!"

This is in regards specifically to a runner, running from 1st to 2nd who dosnt get out of the way after being thrown out to make it easier for the fielder to make a throw to first for the double play. Now, I know the runner has no duty nor responsibility to change course to help the opposing team make a play. As a runner, I have no idea where that fielder is going to go and in my mind, I'm asking for trouble to try and guess where and what he might do. Ive heard from numerous people that its common courtesy to "peel off" and get out of the way of the play. I think that's completely ridiculous. I also play on a team that will argue with me that the ump is right.

My question is, is there a specific rule written to address this? If so, can someone please post it.

There are a lot of local rules out there to this effect. My league has the following listed as interference.

"A runner may not interfere with a fielder’s ability to make or receive a thrown ball. Runner has the responsibility to avoid contact if he is upright and decides not to slide. If out, the runner must slide or veer out of the fielder’s way."

With a similar rule, your ump would be correct.

 

[NCASAUmp]

Speaking ASA...

This would not be considered a form of interference unless the runner does something beyond normally running the bases. The runner can't simply go "poof" once they're called out, and if the defense plays their positions properly, this should not be a problem. Unfortunately, I still hear this crap from ASA umpires, even though we tell them time and time again that there's no rule requiring runners to "slide or get out of the way."

Now, the OP asked for USSSA, not ASA. Unfortunately, within USSSA, there's a lot of grey areas that are open to interpretation, and this is probably going to be one of them. Some UICs may say this is the right call, others may say it's the wrong call. U-Trip is all over the friggin' board with things like this, even when it flies in the face of what's actually written in the book. I've seen a lot of "spirit of the rule" arguments coming from them, coupled with "well, you know what we meant." From a self-proclaimed rulebook nerd's point of view, this is frustrating, and I can't imagine it'd be any less frustrating for the players.

I've searched USSSA's case book, but wasn't able to find anything related to the OP. Your best bet would be to contact whoever's in charge of rule interpretations in your area, and work from there. But like I said, their interpretation may go one way, and then at Worlds, it may go another way.

Good luck, man, because over the years, I've found that they don't know what the **** they want.

 

[ureout]

the runner has every right to stay in the baseline and even take the throw between the eyes if he wants .... no where does it say you have to veer off ...what he cannot do is move sideways into a thrown ball or make contact with the defensive player by going into the bag straight up after he has been ruled out in order to break up a double play...this is a judgement call by the umpire.....many local leagues do have rules in place to try to avoid collisions...and they insist on the runner to get down or out of the way after being called out or a double play will be called

 

[wcoastsoftball]

I abhor this "rule" too. The baserunner should be entitled to the basepath and not have to decide which direction the fielder is going to go once catching and turning to throw to first.

 

[2TransAms]

If I'm out by a mile I just stay in a straight line towards 2B and duck and cover. 1, this semi-protects me from a ball to the face and 2, I hope for the same courtesy in return. You can't expect the runner to disappear. I'd rather know the runner is coming at me then having to guess where he's peeling off to.

In fact, a few years back I was on a team and we were told by the coach to peel inside to try to break up a double play. Ump said the next guy who does that gets called for interference.

 

[Sideways Guy]

If I'm out by a mile I just stay in a straight line towards 2B and duck and cover. 1, this semi-protects me from a ball to the face and 2, I hope for the same courtesy in return. You can't expect the runner to disappear. I'd rather know the runner is coming at me then having to guess where he's peeling off to.

In fact, a few years back I was on a team and we were told by the coach to peel inside to try to break up a double play. Ump said the next guy who does that gets called for interference.

This! Duck and cover baby. IF i can plainly tell which side he's going/throwing, I'll veer the opposite direction. Just a couple weeks ago I saw a guy in another game get pegged right in the noggin- ball shot out to left off his head. WTF?!

 

[NCASAUmp]

This! Duck and cover baby. IF i can plainly tell which side he's going/throwing, I'll veer the opposite direction. Just a couple weeks ago I saw a guy in another game get pegged right in the noggin- ball shot out to left off his head. WTF?!

That's the kind of **** that happens in rec league ball - they stick someone at second who doesn't know how to play his position, and thinks that he's supposed to throw straight down the baseline.

 

[huntaholic21]

I've played 2nd for years, I've held up on throwing more times than I care to remember to avoid hitting the runner. The duck and cover is probably the safest method.

 

[BassBlaster]

Thanks for all the replies.

 

[Dallusglockin]

When I'm playing SS/2B and there's a double play ball, as I'm going towards 2B to catch the throw and make the first out, I'm not looking at where the runner is. Once I get the throw and make the out, there is a short amount of time where I look up at 1B and can see (not pay attention to) the runner. By that point I've crossed the bag and am on one side or the other of the baseline. I would hope the runner is still in the baseline and hasn't chosen a side to veer off to. If I know where the runner will be, there is a good chance I won't hit him with a throw. If he chooses a side and chooses wrong, there isn't much I can do to avoid getting very close or hitting him with the throw.

It's all about being where the fielders expect you to be, the baseline is the runners', so I expect a runner to be there. Like Sideways said, if I'm out by a mile, I'll do the duck and cover. Seen too many weird accidents by athletic supporters trying to play hero ball and rocket throws they have no business in making to 1B.

 

[AreJay]

I'd like to revisit this thread for both the ASA and USSSA opinion of this call.

Runner on first, one out. Batter hits a grounder to SS, SS flips to 2B for the force. 2B turns and throws to first and the ball strikes the runner who had inexplicably stopped running about a third of the way from first to second and was just standing there. Umpire called the force out, and then the interference on the runner for the second out.

What would you call?

 

[NCASAUmp]

I'd like to revisit this thread for both the ASA and USSSA opinion of this call.

Runner on first, one out. Batter hits a grounder to SS, SS flips to 2B for the force. 2B turns and throws to first and the ball strikes the runner who had inexplicably stopped running about a third of the way from first to second and was just standing there. Umpire called the force out, and then the interference on the runner for the second out.

What would you call?

Sounds reasonable to me. The runner can't simply disappear, but stopping in the base path and standing up to block the throw is an act of interference.

 

[GOING 4 THIRD]

Record him making up his own rules then happen to veer out of straight line into oncoming thrown ball and sue his ass, Just to see his handwritten rulebook in court

 

[BigSam]

The clear call is "runners are idiots." But I agree with ^ that guy (NCASAUmp) on the actual call.

 

[Hiltz]

I'd like to revisit this thread for both the ASA and USSSA opinion of this call.

Runner on first, one out. Batter hits a grounder to SS, SS flips to 2B for the force. 2B turns and throws to first and the ball strikes the runner who had inexplicably stopped running about a third of the way from first to second and was just standing there. Umpire called the force out, and then the interference on the runner for the second out.

What would you call?

Runner should get an oldschool Jofa hockey helmet to wear 24/7, that was just stupid. Interference call is correct, but if the 2B's throw hit a runner standing 1/3 of the way down the baseline, the throw was straight down the baseline. 2B has to learn to step to one side or the other, not just turn and fire blindly down the line.

When I'm playing SS/2B and there's a double play ball, as I'm going towards 2B to catch the throw and make the first out, I'm not looking at where the runner is. Once I get the throw and make the out, there is a short amount of time where I look up at 1B and can see (not pay attention to) the runner. By that point I've crossed the bag and am on one side or the other of the baseline. I would hope the runner is still in the baseline and hasn't chosen a side to veer off to. If I know where the runner will be, there is a good chance I won't hit him with a throw. If he chooses a side and chooses wrong, there isn't much I can do to avoid getting very close or hitting him with the throw.

^^^ Yeah, like that.

 

[LoudMouf]

I am 6'4 and 300 pounds and the double play killer. I am going to make a player throw over me or around me....unless someone is brave enough to make me wear one. Lol

 

[ming01]

I couldnt tell you how many times a runner on my team has got out of the way only for the fielders to drop the ball, which would've resulted in the runner being safe.