Should umpires explain calls?

[gloverd]

This happened last night... Runner on 1st (he is brand new to the game, so cut him some slack). A line drive is hit to the second baseman and is caught for out #2. Runner was still standing on first (both feet on the base like a 5 year old) at the time the ball was caught. Runner then advanced to second (again he is brand new). The second baseman threw it to shortstop who was covering second, but SS treated it as if it were a force and did not tag the runner. Short stop then threw it to 1st to appeal him tagging up, and threw it over 1B's head, so the runner advanced to 3rd. After they rounded up the ball and stepped on first (to this point no call had been made on the runner) the two umpires got together and discussed it, and called the runner out.

We asked why he was ruled out, home plate umpire told us to ask the first base umpire. First base umpire would only say that he was out, gave no explanation and threatened to throw out the next player that said something about it. My question is, is this common practice or should the umpire not be able to explain why he made a call (right, wrong, or judgement)?

Before you ask Joker, I did search for "explanation" and "explain". Couldn't find anything in the first few pages. And also, I am not on here to just complain, I actually would like to know the answer to this from some umpires. The story is just what brought the question up and thought it may be needed to show how perplexed we were. Thanks in advance, aaaaand go.

 

[Hiltz]

I've never seen an umpire refuse to explain a call IF THEY WERE ASKED POLITELY. Was this the case in your scenario?

And the shortstop is an idiot.

 

[ureout]

as Hiltz said above.... no reason for the umpire not to answer your question....unless you were being jackasses??

 

[gloverd]

I've never seen an umpire refuse to explain a call IF THEY WERE ASKED POLITELY. Was this the case in your scenario?

And the shortstop is an idiot.

I wouldn't say we were rude at all but to say we were shocked would be an understatement. We got our gloves and went out in the field. When he got to 1st our 1B who is a manager/player (also a former umpire) asked what he saw, the umpire only responded with "he was out." 1B asked him to clarify but he wouldn't. 1B yelled to home plate umpire, he said "It's his call. Ask him." Never could get an answer.

 

[Country469]

Be calm, be polite, and simply say, "blue can I ask you to clarify this so we don't make this mistake again"..........never once have I gotten even a semi negative reaction and always was told where the ump was coming from. Whether you agree with it or not, say thanks and move on. unless you are going to protest.

 

[Joker]

i doubt politeness was part of this exchange

 

[NCASAUmp]

I don't mind talking with a coach or captain about a call. A little explanation can go a long way to smooth things over with teams, and so long as everyone is polite and decent about it, I'll be happy to explain what I saw. Even if you're visibly upset, hey, I'm still cool with answering questions.

However, I will say this. A lot of times, whenever there's a call that a team wants to question, that team suddenly has 12 different "coaches" who want to come out and dispute the call. Guys, if you want to see results and have a better rapport with the officiating crew, don't have your entire team come out and argue. Send the coach, ONE coach, out to talk with the umpire. I can't answer questions from 12 different "coaches" all at the same time, but I can certainly have a good dialog with one coach about what happened.

Last time I played, I was the team captain. I had one rule for my players - if you don't see me arguing, there is nothing worth arguing about. And if you do see me arguing, I don't need your help, just let me handle it. It made games go so much smoother for everyone involved.

Back to the OP. Obviously, I wasn't there to see what happened with this play, and I'm not saying that the above (12 "coaches") is what happened. I'm just saying that that's what I see a lot of, and it doesn't help things. If you want better results, follow my advice.

 

[LIKEUCM]

Umpires are not required to explain calls, but they should be open to questions from Managers. A protest can result if a team does not agree with the umpire's interpretation and/or application of a playing rule. A "because I said so, too bad so sad" position taken by any umpire is not acceptable. Answer valid questions with a reply that begins with "in my judgment...." or "by rule..." and conversations will be productive, to the point, and very brief. Teams desreve respect and answers to valid questions, as long as they respect the umpires while asking. In this case it appears as though they had a live ball appeal at first base for the runner leaving early on a caught fly ball. That should not be difficult for the umpire to share with the team, so they can understand the basis of the "out" call and make sure the runner understands what he did, so that he does not repeat the same mistake.

 

[gloverd]

Be calm, be polite, and simply say, "blue can I ask you to clarify this so we don't make this mistake again"..........never once have I gotten even a semi negative reaction and always was told where the ump was coming from. Whether you agree with it or not, say thanks and move on. unless you are going to protest.

I don't mind talking with a coach or captain about a call. A little explanation can go a long way to smooth things over with teams, and so long as everyone is polite and decent about it, I'll be happy to explain what I saw. Even if you're visibly upset, hey, I'm still cool with answering questions.

However, I will say this. A lot of times, whenever there's a call that a team wants to question, that team suddenly has 12 different "coaches" who want to come out and dispute the call. Guys, if you want to see results and have a better rapport with the officiating crew, don't have your entire team come out and argue. Send the coach, ONE coach, out to talk with the umpire. I can't answer questions from 12 different "coaches" all at the same time, but I can certainly have a good dialog with one coach about what happened.

Last time I played, I was the team captain. I had one rule for my players - if you don't see me arguing, there is nothing worth arguing about. And if you do see me arguing, I don't need your help, just let me handle it. It made games go so much smoother for everyone involved.

Back to the OP. Obviously, I wasn't there to see what happened with this play, and I'm not saying that the above (12 "coaches") is what happened. I'm just saying that that's what I see a lot of, and it doesn't help things. If you want better results, follow my advice.

That I get 100%. There was some chirping from the dugout (probably didn't help), but nothing rude was said. Everybody went to their positions. 1B (manager/player) approached the field ump at first. I pitch and couldn't hear their discussion until, "He's out. That's the call." Either way, whats done is done. I appreciate your responses and I will suggest a similar policy for arguments in the future. Thanks. Oh yea and thanks Joker, you never disappoint.

 

[NCASAUmp]

Umpires are not required to explain calls, but they should be open to questions from Managers. A protest can result if a team does not agree with the umpire's interpretation and/or application of a playing rule. A "because I said so, too bad so sad" position taken by any umpire is not acceptable. Answer valid questions with a reply that begins with "in my judgment...." or "by rule..." and conversations will be productive, to the point, and very brief. Teams desreve respect and answers to valid questions, as long as they respect the umpires while asking. In this case it appears as though they had a live ball appeal at first base for the runner leaving early on a caught fly ball. That should not be difficult for the umpire to share with the team, so they can understand the basis of the "out" call and make sure the runner understands what he did, so that he does not repeat the same mistake.

You know, I'm still trying to find the "too bad, so sad" rule. Isn't that in Rule 14, or something?

 

[gloverd]

Umpires are not required to explain calls, but they should be open to questions from Managers. A protest can result if a team does not agree with the umpire's interpretation and/or application of a playing rule. A "because I said so, too bad so sad" position taken by any umpire is not acceptable. Answer valid questions with a reply that begins with "in my judgment...." or "by rule..." and conversations will be productive, to the point, and very brief. Teams desreve respect and answers to valid questions, as long as they respect the umpires while asking. In this case it appears as though they had a live ball appeal at first base for the runner leaving early on a caught fly ball. That should not be difficult for the umpire to share with the team, so they can understand the basis of the "out" call and make sure the runner understands what he did, so that he does not repeat the same mistake.

Completely understandable. Thanks for your input. What I am getting is maybe a different approach and a little less "chirping." We'll see how easily the second one comes. Preciate it fellas!

 

[LIKEUCM]

You know, I'm still trying to find the "too bad, so sad" rule. Isn't that in Rule 14, or something?

OMG...I set myself up for that one! Yes, it is rule 14...it follows the "call a pitch DEEP" rule!

 

[Donger73]

Rule interpretations should be the only reason to formally discuss anything

 

[NCASAUmp]

I disagree. If a team thinks that an umpire missed a pulled foot or a tag, then they should absolutely ask the umpire what s/he saw. Nothing wrong with that.

Now, arguing judgment, on the other hand... Yeah, that's pointless.

 

[blakcherry329]

A lot of the time when an ump doesn't explain his call it's because he knows he missed it. Also being a **** won't get you and explanation either. lol Sounds like the ump missed the call, that's why the Home plate ump deferred to the other ump.

 

[NCASAUmp]

A lot of the time when an ump doesn't explain his call it's because he knows he missed it. Also being a **** won't get you and explanation either. lol Sounds like the ump missed the call, that's why the Home plate ump deferred to the other ump.

No, he deferred to the other umpire because it was the other umpire's call. If you have a question about a call, always go to the umpire who made the call. The home plate umpire does not overrule the other umpire(s), even if the other umpire blew the call.

 

[RNRPLZ]

This happened last night... Runner on 1st (he is brand new to the game, so cut him some slack). A line drive is hit to the second baseman and is caught for out #2. Runner was still standing on first (both feet on the base like a 5 year old) at the time the ball was caught. Runner then advanced to second (again he is brand new). The second baseman threw it to shortstop who was covering second, but SS treated it as if it were a force and did not tag the runner. Short stop then threw it to 1st to appeal him tagging up, and threw it over 1B's head, so the runner advanced to 3rd. After they rounded up the ball and stepped on first (to this point no call had been made on the runner) the two umpires got together and discussed it, and called the runner out.

We asked why he was ruled out, home plate umpire told us to ask the first base umpire. First base umpire would only say that he was out, gave no explanation and threatened to throw out the next player that said something about it. My question is, is this common practice or should the umpire not be able to explain why he made a call (right, wrong, or judgement)?

Before you ask Joker, I did search for "explanation" and "explain". Couldn't find anything in the first few pages. And also, I am not on here to just complain, I actually would like to know the answer to this from some umpires. The story is just what brought the question up and thought it may be needed to show how perplexed we were. Thanks in advance, aaaaand go.

Nicely.???? That umpire should have professionally gave a quick explication of why he was out. Next the runner is not out. He should have been on 3rd bade. Your scenario stated line drive caught. Runner was on base. If he took off after the line drive was caught, run at your own risk. You even stated shortstop thought it was a force. Again, great tag up and causing confusion. Bad decision on both umpires.

 

[blakcherry329]

No, he deferred to the other umpire because it was the other umpire's call. If you have a question about a call, always go to the umpire who made the call. The home plate umpire does not overrule the other umpire(s), even if the other umpire blew the call.

Yeah that makes sense.
But wth did they discuss? At that point the home plate ump should have told the base ump the runner is safe. If they were discussing the play, then the home plate ump should have given his opinion. Unless, of course, they both blew the call. smh

 

[irishmafia]

Yeah that makes sense.
But wth did they discuss? At that point the home plate ump should have told the base ump the runner is safe. If they were discussing the play, then the home plate ump should have given his opinion. Unless, of course, they both blew the call. smh

Again, it is not the PU's call. And the PU does not have the authority to change or tell the BU to change the call. The only thing the PU can offer is an answer to the BU's question.

There are any number of reasons the umpires got together. Anywhere from checking the appropriate rule application to the short skirt you girlfriend was wearing

 

[blakcherry329]

Ok, but, in this instance, the way it's described, could both umps have gotten it this wrong?

 

[EdFred]

Ok, but, in this instance, the way it's described, could both umps have gotten it this wrong?

Yes, especially if the PU wasn't watching the runner on 1st. He can't call what he didn't see, so he has to leave the entire call up to the BU. It's anecdotal, but I've found that a lot of times unless the umpire has known me for years, when they blow a call, and they know they blew it they will not explain why they called it the way they did.

 

[blakcherry329]

Yes, especially if the PU wasn't watching the runner on 1st. He can't call what he didn't see, so he has to leave the entire call up to the BU. It's anecdotal, but I've found that a lot of times unless the umpire has known me for years, when they blow a call, and they know they blew it they will not explain why they called it the way they did.

That's what I said. It's just hard to believe they would both get it wrong.

 

[EdFred]

If the PU didn't see what happened, only one umpire got the call wrong.

 

[thaynes]

Sometimes you just get bad umps. I asked one one time if the pitch broke 6' and he said no. I asked if that should've been called illegal then and he simply said "Man get in the box". Other than just blown calls that's probably the worst attitude I've dealt with. Had one guy one night I was really badgering after he cost us playoff game. He took it like a champ. Simply said, after a lot of badgering, keep it up and I'll send you to the parking lot. I respect him more than most now. I should've been tossed even though we were done already. So like I said. Sometime you just get bad/unprofessional umps

 

[NCASAUmp]

That's what I said. It's just hard to believe they would both get it wrong.

You're assuming that the plate umpire and the base umpire came to the same conclusions.

 

[Hiltz]

Sometimes you just get bad umps. I asked one one time if the pitch broke 6' and he said no. I asked if that should've been called illegal then and he simply said "Man get in the box".

So you got an ump to admit that he missed a call, then you kept at him? What kind of person does that?

Had one guy one night I was really badgering after he cost us playoff game. He took it like a champ. Simply said, after a lot of badgering, keep it up and I'll send you to the parking lot.

Oh yeah, that kind...

 

[thaynes]

So you got an ump to admit that he missed a call, then you kept at him? What kind of person does that?




Oh yeah, that kind...

Kept at him? Where did you read that in there? Did I say I kept jawing with him? No i didn't. I got in the box and played. Never been ejected before and rarely ever have any beef. I described the one time that I did and in that case the ump did not admit that he screwed us out of the playoffs. If you'll notice I said I respect that ump more than most now which shows that I realized I was wrong to jump on him like i did. There's nothing wrong with pointing out that an ump mad a bad call. I went over board with the yelling though as I admited.

I'm regards to the ump who "admitted" he made a bad call he had an attitude the entire time. If I say "wasn't that illegal then?" (After admitting you screwed up) the appropriate response is "yes". Don't even have to apologize, but don't cop an attitude with a player when you're the one in the wrong. I didn't say anything and continued the ab. Next time you want to make assumptions and try acting like you know what kind of person I am, don't. Ask me how it turned out next time. It'll prevent you from looking like an absolute ass.

 

[Hiltz]

Kept at him? Where did you read that in there? Did I say I kept jawing with him? No i didn't. I got in the box and played. Never been ejected before and rarely ever have any beef. I described the one time that I did and in that case the ump did not admit that he screwed us out of the playoffs. If you'll notice I said I respect that ump more than most now which shows that I realized I was wrong to jump on him like i did. There's nothing wrong with pointing out that an ump mad a bad call. I went over board with the yelling though as I admited.

I'm regards to the ump who "admitted" he made a bad call he had an attitude the entire time. If I say "wasn't that illegal then?" (After admitting you screwed up) the appropriate response is "yes". Don't even have to apologize, but don't cop an attitude with a player when you're the one in the wrong. I didn't say anything and continued the ab. Next time you want to make assumptions and try acting like you know what kind of person I am, don't. Ask me how it turned out next time. It'll prevent you from looking like an absolute ass.

I don't know how long ago this playoff game was, but I think your panties are still bunched.

 

[thaynes]

I don't know how long ago this playoff game was, but I think your panties are still bunched.

It was probably close to 10 years ago. If that's your take away you should reread both posts again. Simply remembering a bad event doesn't mean you're still angry about it. I'm also not sure if you're thinking the 2 stories I told were I the same game, they weren't. Simply an example of a professional ump and a non proffesional ump

 

[RNRPLZ]

Yeah that makes sense.
But wth did they discuss? At that point the home plate ump should have told the base ump the runner is safe. If they were discussing the play, then the home plate ump should have given his opinion. Unless, of course, they both blew the call. smh

When it’s a call like that and most of the time we listen to other, if we saw and was adamant then reverse it, if not I got by my coworkers opinion. Then we discuss where we might go to eat later, how hoy it is. The girl in the short skirt or whatever.