ASA Slap hits/Bunting.

[OMFGitsTheBee]

Trying to determine what constitutes a slap hit. This happened a few weeks ago and one of my players was called out for it during a close game. Is it not a legal hit if the player breaks the wrists? Also if in fact it was a true slap hit, does the umpire have to call the out immediately or can the umpire call it after the player reaches base? Thanks.

 

[RDD15]

Breaking the wrists has nothing to do with it.

The player may not "chop down" at the ball, and they also must take a "full swing". Taking a slow swing is however, legal.

 

[bb666b77]

^^^^^^^ yep what he says,no choppy, but who is to tell you how fast you must swing,no one,just make sure it is a complete swing.

 

[irishmafia]

Breaking the wrists has nothing to do with it.

The player may not "chop down" at the ball, and they also must take a "full swing". Taking a slow swing is however, legal.

Not so. The batter just needs to be swinging the bat. There is no requirement of speed or distance the bat must go. IOW, there is no requirement of a "full" swing.

 

[oppo]

From the ASA rulebook

Section 6. THE BATTER IS OUT.
A. When the third strike is:
1. swung at and the pitched ball touches any part of the batter’s person,
or
2. is not swung at, and the pitched ball hits the batter while the pitch is in
the strike zone.
3. when the pitched ball, in the umpire’s judgment, is prevented from
entering the strike zone by actions of the batter other than hitting the
ball.
B. When a batter enters the batter’s box with or is discovered using an altered
or non-approved bat.
EFFECT: The batter shall be ejected from the game, and if in a tournament,
shall be ejected for the remainder of the tournament.
C. When the batter enters the batter’s box with or is discovered using an illegal
bat.
EFFECT: The batter is called out.
Note: B-C If a previous batter has used the same altered or illegal bat and
a pitch has been made, the current batter only is out.
D. When an entire foot is touching the ground completely outside the lines of
the batter’s box at the time the ball makes contact with the bat.
E. When any part of a foot is touching home plate at the time the ball makes
contact with the bat.
F. When a batter leaves the batter’s box and returns to the box and makes
contact with the ball.
G. (Fast Pitch) When the batter bunts foul after the second strike. If the ball is
caught before touching the ground, it remains live.
H. (Slow Pitch) When the batter bunts or chops the ball.
I. When members of the team at bat, including those in the team area, other
than runners interfere with a player attempting to field a fair or foul fly ball.
J. (16” Slow Pitch) When a batter intentionally hits a pitched ball that first strikes the ground or home plate, to prevent the catcher from executing a pick-off
attempt.
K. When the batter hits a fair ball with the bat a second time in fair territory.
EFFECT: D –K The ball is dead and runner(s) must return to the base occupied
at the time of the pitch.
EXCEPTION:
1. When the batter is in the batter’s box and contact is made while the bat
is in the batter’s hands.
EFFECT: Foul ball, even if the ball is hit a second time over fair territory.
2. When the batter drops the bat and the ball rolls against the bat in fair
territory, and, in the umpire’s judgment, there was no intent to interfere
with the ball.
EFFECT: The ball is live.
3. When contact is made on the follow through after missing the pitch on
the initial swing.
EFFECT: The ball is dead, and a strike is called.
L. Slow Pitch) After a third strike, including a foul ball that is hit after two
strikes.
M. (Fast Pitch) When a called or swinging third strike is caught by the catcher.
N. (Fast Pitch) When the batter has three strikes and/or if there are fewer than
two outs and first base is occupied at the time of
the pitch.
O. Whenever the batter due up has left the game under the Short-handed
Rule.
P. When hindering the catcher from catching or throwing the ball by stepping
out of the batter’s box.
Q. When actively hindering the catcher while in the batter’s box.
R. When intentionally interfering with a thrown ball, in or out of the batter’s
box.
S. When interfering with a play at home plate.
EFFECT: P-S The ball is dead, the batter is out and each runner must return
to the last base that, in the umpire’s judgment, was touched at the time of
the interference.
EXCEPTION: If no play is being made and the batter accidentally makes
contact with the catcher’s return throw to the pitcher, the ball is dead and
any advancement of runner(s) shall be nullified.

 

[BretMan]

From the ASA rulebook...

You're on the right track with the portion highlighted in red.

Now, look up the ASA definition of "bunt" under rule 1. If the contact with the pitch doesn't meet the definition of a bunt, then it is a swing.

 

[oppo]

BUNT: A pitched ball that is intentionally tapped with the bat, slowly, within the infield.

Imo, a true slap hit, which would require an actual swing of some sort, definitely doesn't qualify as tapping and the rule doesn't say that there is anything illegal about slapping the ball as long as the slapping doesn't constitute chopping. Assuming for a moment that the ump actually used the words "slap hit", this should have been grounds for a protest since no such rule exists, correct?

 

[irishmafia]

Imo, a true slap hit, which would require an actual swing of some sort, definitely doesn't qualify as tapping and the rule doesn't say that there is anything illegal about slapping the ball as long as the slapping doesn't constitute chopping. Assuming for a moment that the ump actually used the words "slap hit", this should have been grounds for a protest since no such rule exists, correct?

You should also know that "chopping" is interpreted as bringing the bat above the head and bringing it straight down, as if chopping a log one is standing on/over.

 

[philphan89]

looks like someone is an infielder who cant throw out a runner lol

 

[DeputyUICHousto]

Look for

the bat stopping during the swing. This might give you an idea that you have a bunt.

 

[Gulf Coast Blue]

If it does not meet the definition of a bunt or a chopped ball.....it is a swing.

 

[irishmafia]

the bat stopping during the swing. This might give you an idea that you have a bunt.

And believe it or not, it is not that hard to determine, but the umpire should not be looking for it.

When seen, the eyes will tell the brain. You varying type of calls happen when someone starts whining and the umpire looks for a way to make such a call.

 

[Gulf Coast Blue]

And believe it or not, it is not that hard to determine, but the umpire should not be looking for it.

When seen, the eyes will tell the brain. You varying type of calls happen when someone starts whining and the umpire looks for a way to make such a call.

Agree.......when you start making expected calls......or calls based on the whining of one team or the other.....you are not doing your job.

I have not seen a bunt or a chopped ball in a slow pitch game since I was in college.......and that has been quite a few years. Training and experience will tell you what has happened.

I became a believer quite a number of years back to believe what your eyes tell you........and not try and make up a scenerio to fit what happened.

Joel

 

[VF500Racer]

Um, I don't know, I'd seen a few at tournies, intentional or not.
Usually a really soft swing down the 3rd base line and takes off running.
Question becomes yes it's a full swing but very soft as to constitute
tapping/bunt? It's hard to tell when they toss the bat immediately
after ball contact... I mean, U got to practice that...

 

[irishmafia]

Um, I don't know, I'd seen a few at tournies, intentional or not.
Usually a really soft swing down

End of statement. It's a swing, you just stated so.

the 3rd base line and takes off running.
Question becomes yes it's a full swing but very soft as to constitute
tapping/bunt? It's hard to tell when they toss the bat immediately
after ball contact... I mean, U got to practice that...

Irrelevant. Where did anyone ever get the idea a "full" swing was ever necessary? Myth, pure myth.

 

[cwestwjg]

We teach our girls to step through and just drag the bat through the ball square to the short stop which usually drops it about 2 foot of 3rd baseline and slow rolls. Never been called out for it almost like a running drag bunt.

 

[eddieq]

We teach our girls to step through and just drag the bat through the ball square to the short stop which usually drops it about 2 foot of 3rd baseline and slow rolls. Never been called out for it almost like a running drag bunt.

That in fast pitch, though or are you teaching that to slow pitch players? Bunting is perfectly legal in FP.

 

[cwestwjg]

that in fast pitch, though or are you teaching that to slow pitch players? Bunting is perfectly legal in fp.

fastpitch sorry didnt realize it was a slow pitch question

 

[VF500Racer]

End of statement. It's a swing, you just stated so.



Irrelevant. Where did anyone ever get the idea a "full" swing was ever necessary? Myth, pure myth.

Kind of early to call it Irish...
ONLY problem is does a super slow 2/3-3/4 swing count, it's not a
full swing b/c they already let the bat go and run at same time.
I'm inclined to say no b/c it is not a full swing but I am not sure
b/c don't see this topic covered in clinics or clarifications or videos.
I know it's a judgement call and hence hard to call.

 

[OMFGitsTheBee]

Nice to see that my question has sparked so much interest.

 

[irishmafia]

Kind of early to call it Irish...
ONLY problem is does a super slow 2/3-3/4 swing count, it's not a
full swing b/c they already let the bat go and run at same time.
I'm inclined to say no b/c it is not a full swing but I am not sure
b/c don't see this topic covered in clinics or clarifications or videos.
I know it's a judgement call and hence hard to call.

Trust me, you are killing a fly with a shotgun. This is so easy it is unbelievable it has gotten this far. If it isn't a bunt, it is a swing. It doesn't have to be fast, doesn't have to be slow, it can be any speed and any distance.

Don't overthink this. There are no "what ifs" or "what about", a swing is a swing.

 

[miken-mv1]

Just swing the bat like a man!!!! If you werent an E-class hero, we wouldnt be having this discussion... I mean its rediculous, the ball is comming at u at 8 mph, hit it in a gap somewhere, ijs

 

[AWall13]

i knew an older LH guy who for years was surgical at slapping the ball through the 5-6 whole. Most the time it was on the ground, every once in a while hed move down on the ball some and hit a line drive, but almost never hits the ball above maybe 10' off the ground......guy still had good speed even though he was older and just said if i hit a fly ball its a waste of an AB........Would i classify it as a bunt? definately not........slap? for sure......idk the rules that deeply, but it was in ASA leagues and if it was an enforced rule with no grey or left to umpire discretion he wouldve been a very different player

 

[cmo27]

I'm a left handed batter and I have fairly decent speed.. I tend to do this often when I notice the 3B playing a little deep or day dreaming.. Guaranteed hit every time.. I've never been called out at a World/National or any large tournament.. Also, I probably push the limits as to what constitutes a "full swing".. However, in local tournaments and leagues it usually causes a lot of crying by the opposing team and the ump will make me bat again.. No strike counted against usually, the 3B will then move up a few feet in front of the base to try to defend it, then I will hit a missile by his left ear.. Its a hit 98% of the time either way..lol.. Don't scramble your brain trying to determine what's a swing or a bunt, etc.. Never gets you anywhere.. At larger tournaments you'll be fine, local stuff is where the argument always originates.. Just my .02

 

[DeputyUICHousto]

Full Swing?

There is no rule on how fast you have to swing the bat...as long as you don't chop down on the ball or bunt you're good to go...this is overkill!!!! Let it go!

 

[BretMan]

i knew an older LH guy who for years was surgical at slapping the ball through the 5-6 whole.

Slapping the ball through the 5-6 hole doesn't meet the ASA definition of "a bunt" because the ball wasn't "tapped slowly within the infield".

However, in local tournaments and leagues it usually causes a lot of crying by the opposing team and the ump will make me bat again.

A "do-over" should never be an option here! You either bunted (and what you describe doesn't sound like a bunt) and are out or you didn't and you're not.

 

[irishmafia]

Just swing the bat like a man!!!! If you werent an E-class hero, we wouldnt be having this discussion... I mean its rediculous, the ball is comming at u at 8 mph, hit it in a gap somewhere, ijs

Actually, what brought this issue to the forefront over the past few years was a player in the ASA Major (at the time) on the Armed Forces team (Army, I think), that would top the ball and take off.

Those on the Armed Forces team just played the ball the best they could and occasionally got the guy out. No complaints, just did their job. He went to OKC and all hell broke loose. There was so much crying by the other teams, the horses in the stables at Remington could get any sleep.

Isn't it amazing that you refer to being a "man" and swing the bat, but when it comes to playing defense, all the "men" are playing back on the grass.