The future of modified (sling) pitch

Joe 34

Addicted to Softballfans
Explain this to me about paying pitchers. I played with CWR this year. We had four pitchers who pitched for us in several tournaments. Not one of them recieved a dime from anyone or had the rooms paid for. We won including last year the NIT 09, early bird in March, Mike Purcell Invitational, Elanco Memorial day, Warren Garoni Invitational, Finshed in 7th place in MD fastpitch tournament, NIT '10 champs and this years ISA worlds. We did that by not paying anyone to pitch or play and everyone put money out of pocket to travel to these events. We had great chemistry on the team and alot of talent. We did not care who we played or who pitched against us. It started to become a challange for us to beat the best and we did.

The pitchers we had were not on any list that the ISA had. The only one that may be on there is Bogie. But what I am saying is if you want to be the best you have to beat the best and you don't get that by complaining about the pitching. We did not care how they threw you still have to hit it and field your position.
 

TH#2

Addicted to Softballfans
just to clarify... Bauer, Lance is on the class A ISA list. and yes you guys had a very good year. we are talking about the decline in the game.



Explain this to me about paying pitchers. I played with CWR this year. We had four pitchers who pitched for us in several tournaments. Not one of them recieved a dime from anyone or had the rooms paid for. We won including last year the NIT 09, early bird in March, Mike Purcell Invitational, Elanco Memorial day, Warren Garoni Invitational, Finshed in 7th place in MD fastpitch tournament, NIT '10 champs and this years ISA worlds. We did that by not paying anyone to pitch or play and everyone put money out of pocket to travel to these events. We had great chemistry on the team and alot of talent. We did not care who we played or who pitched against us. It started to become a challange for us to beat the best and we did.

The pitchers we had were not on any list that the ISA had. The only one that may be on there is Bogie. But what I am saying is if you want to be the best you have to beat the best and you don't get that by complaining about the pitching. We did not care how they threw you still have to hit it and field your position.
 

Joe 34

Addicted to Softballfans
I stand corrected. I was not sure if he was on the list as he just started playing ISA This year.
 

Legends15

Addicted to Softballfans
Explain this to me about paying pitchers. I played with CWR this year. We had four pitchers who pitched for us in several tournaments. Not one of them recieved a dime from anyone or had the rooms paid for. We won including last year the NIT 09, early bird in March, Mike Purcell Invitational, Elanco Memorial day, Warren Garoni Invitational, Finshed in 7th place in MD fastpitch tournament, NIT '10 champs and this years ISA worlds. We did that by not paying anyone to pitch or play and everyone put money out of pocket to travel to these events. We had great chemistry on the team and alot of talent. We did not care who we played or who pitched against us. It started to become a challange for us to beat the best and we did.

The pitchers we had were not on any list that the ISA had. The only one that may be on there is Bogie. But what I am saying is if you want to be the best you have to beat the best and you don't get that by complaining about the pitching. We did not care how they threw you still have to hit it and field your position.

Most of the pitchers being referred, no longer play modified and that is why teams can compete and have success. I'm sure some still get something but i don't see it as a problem in the game the way it was.
 

NYSoftball20

Addicted to Softballfans
I happen to be one of the pitchers that people ***** about in modified, i was in drifton for the class B tournament and was able to pitch a game and after i pitched everyone there was complaining,so therefore they banged me illegal.Iasked the umpire what i was doing differently and his explanation was you know what is going on . There were a ton of Class A players there so for them to call it a classB tournament is nonsense . The fact that the umpires could not see exactly what i was doing wrong tells you everything about that tournament is BS . People on this site talk about team records and stats if you want to be the best then play the best , this sport 10 yrs ago was unbelieveable now it is just a bunch of people who like to brag and cry at the same time.This is not meant for the teams that want to play quality teams this is for the other 1000 that complain.
Who would ***** about you pitching? The only problem I could see when a team faces you is someone could get seriously injured when all the guys are fighting to get to the bat rack...lol!
 

patdapitcher

Addicted to Softballfans
Most of the bitching that goes on are from the people who can't play with the best, they want to marginalize the game to suit their abilities. I play with Stafford and we've played some of the best and I just don't see what there is to ***** about. Basically what it comes down to is pitching, pitching, pitching. because there are not alot of good pitchers and very few new guys coming up, so when you face some of these guys it makes them look that much better. The main problem I see with the game is the lack of "young" pitching prospects, nobody is willing or they are unable to put the time in to become any good. Perhaps if there was a website to put information in for young guys to possibly pull information from it might encourage more young guys to go out and try to be the best, or possibly have the best pitchers in some of the leagues give a clinic to young guys who want to learn. When I go to tournaments I see guys (position players) warming up before games throwing modified and some actually look pretty good maybe a few pointers and they can become decent pitchers. What are some of your thoughts, perhaps some video illustration. I'd be willing to help out, as I'm sure would most of the good pitchers around would be.
 

kodiak17

Addicted to Softballfans
The way I am reading the above statement to me says you were illegal and the umpire called and when asked why he said "you know what's going on" and you are pissed he couldn't tell you but you were illegal. My question is in ASA 10 man pitching are you legal? No BS answers no well I can be, are you legal yes or no? If the answer is no I am not legal then don't go to these tournaments. You are one of the problems in modified. Guys who know they shouldn't be playing in lower divisions and sandbag hurt the game but this Drifton Tournament sounds like it as all about money and that is it.
And so you know I have played in the slingshot tournaments in New York on Staten Island and against Skyliners/Patsys and Gremlins/L&P and at Nationals for many years. I would love to play in those games again. My team was 15 guys from our town that loved to play ball and were good at it. Competing against payrolls and New Zealand National Fast Pitch players. It just got out of hand. Then teams started leaving going to fastpitch which isn't played locally here so the local push went to 10 Man. So thats what we play. Wouldn't make a lot of sense to handicap ourselves and play 1 style then go and travel a long way to play another.
I have other opinions on the game that I will share soon. Short on time right now.

Then you must be one of the guys that complain about pitching otherwise you would not have a 9MAN TOURNAMENT WITH 10 MAN PITCHING if you are going to play 9man play it stop changing the rules so that it benefits you
 

KATMAN23

Addicted to Softballfans
cost is a big reason that teams dont travel we couldnt because of our happenings in neb. this year no money no travel. true no young pitchers but are there enough teams out there , to support if there were. i do know this if some of these teams that r on the fence dont come out and play the 9 man game could deff. be hurting. what do u have for 9 man teams now. we play the same 10 all the time. in 07 when we held the nats. i made calls and sent emails to over 50 teams. that had played 9 man . the teams r out there just getting them to the same local is the problem. we have tried it all ASA ISA and yet only what 3 new teams in the last 4 years not good. pat da pitcher was rite all those position guys throwing on the sidelines , that how most modified guys start . oh well gotta start getting ready for bb season wood bat tourny this weekend in laconia. last one of the year. later see u in april
 

BLAR13

Addicted to Softballfans
Then you must be one of the guys that complain about pitching otherwise you would not have a 9MAN TOURNAMENT WITH 10 MAN PITCHING if you are going to play 9man play it stop changing the rules so that it benefits you

Never complained about facing a pitcher and I never will. I run a tournament that has changed through the years to 10 man because no 9 man teams were coming to the tournament. It will be 10 man again this year with 10 fielders and we hope to have 10 quality teams. You want to come throw feel free as long as you are legal.
 

hammer38

Manager
There seems to be a shift in modify (open major - class A), sling pitch teams moving to fastpitch. Due to the lack of teams playing at this level. I believe every attempt has been made to try to revive this game, a pitchers list have been created to prevent teams from stacking up on all the best pitchers.. To allow for a more even playing field.

So WHY do you think the numbers are so down.. And have been for several years now…

Also - If you plan on running a open class (sling) pitch tournament (ASA or ISA) in 2011 please list it.
someone post that there are no young players
willing to learn sling in MOD , what about some of the older players learning how to sling pitching . i was 30 years old the first year i become a full time fast pitch pitcher. i am now 72 year old and still able to hold my own in fastpitch
i think learning to pitch sling isn't really that hard for an older player or young
player. it just like a person trying to kick the drug habit , they have got to want to do it.
 

blacksheep29

New Member
cost is a big reason that teams dont travel we couldnt because of our happenings in neb. this year no money no travel. true no young pitchers but are there enough teams out there , to support if there were. i do know this if some of these teams that r on the fence dont come out and play the 9 man game could deff. be hurting. what do u have for 9 man teams now. we play the same 10 all the time. in 07 when we held the nats. i made calls and sent emails to over 50 teams. that had played 9 man . the teams r out there just getting them to the same local is the problem. we have tried it all ASA ISA and yet only what 3 new teams in the last 4 years not good. pat da pitcher was rite all those position guys throwing on the sidelines , that how most modified guys start . oh well gotta start getting ready for bb season wood bat tourny this weekend in laconia. last one of the year. later see u in april

I disagree slow pitch still has tons of teams traveling
 

00PA

Addicted to Softballfans
I could'nt agree with you more. When I first started playing modified I did not care who was throwing. I played fast pitch so the speed and movement was some what the same. Now all I hear on this site is about the pitching. He is illegal, ten man style, bowling style. Seriously. If you are pitching bowling style or chuck and duck then go play slow pitch. Stop with all the bitching about pitchers. In windmill a pitcher can dominate the game but in modified the pitching evens out and not one pitcher can really dominate. Anyone team can win a game especilally now with all the pitchers not allowed to throw.

I absolutely agree with this comment. Here in PA the 10 man pitch game is all but taken over except for a couple of leagues that are left that still allow slingshot which is what I throw. i really do want to go to the 9 Man Nationals next year but after reading the number of teams hell I should just learn to throw fastpitch.
 

patdapitcher

Addicted to Softballfans
I think ISA in Central NJ is doing a good job of trying to grow the sport in our region, the league is well run. The biggest thing of course is pitching, they do a good job of differentiating the "A" teams from the "B" teams. For example a team joined the "A" league, after 2 games they were outscored handily. The Commissioner assessed that the team would better compete in the "B" and suggested to the coach that a move be advised. The coach agreed and they are now a good team in the "B". I think that a league has to have at least 2 divisions this way everyone can compete on an equal playing field without running the risk of getting blown out or blowing teams out which isn't much fun and would discourage participation.
Another good aspect is a Free agent list if you don't have a team but would like to play and a team needs a guy or 2.
Perhaps a clinic where a few pitchers would work with some guys who are interested in trying it out.

I figured I'd try offering a solution instead of bitching about the current state of Modified. All solutions are wanted maybe we can grow the game a little.
 

bostonpete

Addicted to Softballfans
Yes!!

The Commissioner assessed that the team would better compete in the "B" and suggested to the coach that a move be advised. The coach agreed and they are now a good team in the "B". I think that a league has to have at least 2 divisions this way everyone can compete on an equal playing field without running the risk of getting blown out or blowing teams out which isn't much fun and would discourage participation.


Pat I have said this all along and agree with this way of running things. Give something for everybody.
 

gofisch

Active Member
I think ISA in Central NJ is doing a good job of trying to grow the sport in our region, the league is well run. The biggest thing of course is pitching, they do a good job of differentiating the "A" teams from the "B" teams. For example a team joined the "A" league, after 2 games they were outscored handily. The Commissioner assessed that the team would better compete in the "B" and suggested to the coach that a move be advised. The coach agreed and they are now a good team in the "B". I think that a league has to have at least 2 divisions this way everyone can compete on an equal playing field without running the risk of getting blown out or blowing teams out which isn't much fun and would discourage participation.
Another good aspect is a Free agent list if you don't have a team but would like to play and a team needs a guy or 2.
Perhaps a clinic where a few pitchers would work with some guys who are interested in trying it out.

I figured I'd try offering a solution instead of bitching about the current state of Modified. All solutions are wanted maybe we can grow the game a little.

Here, Here.
 

blakcherry329

Well-Known Member
I think ISA in Central NJ is doing a good job of trying to grow the sport in our region, the league is well run. The biggest thing of course is pitching, they do a good job of differentiating the "A" teams from the "B" teams. For example a team joined the "A" league, after 2 games they were outscored handily. The Commissioner assessed that the team would better compete in the "B" and suggested to the coach that a move be advised. The coach agreed and they are now a good team in the "B". I think that a league has to have at least 2 divisions this way everyone can compete on an equal playing field without running the risk of getting blown out or blowing teams out which isn't much fun and would discourage participation.
Another good aspect is a Free agent list if you don't have a team but would like to play and a team needs a guy or 2.
Perhaps a clinic where a few pitchers would work with some guys who are interested in trying it out.

I figured I'd try offering a solution instead of bitching about the current state of Modified. All solutions are wanted maybe we can grow the game a little.

A clinic would be great. I would definitely attend. I need a better fastball:eek::mad::(
 

patdapitcher

Addicted to Softballfans
I've talked to the commissioner of the ISA Central NJ about a clinic for pitching, it is in the planning stages. Ideally it would probably be done in the winter or early spring.
Any old time pitchers with some experience out there give me a shout. I'd love to hear your ideas.
 

00PA

Addicted to Softballfans
Joe34 I got to pitch against CWR this year at the eolanco memorial tournament. You guys hit the hell out of the ball and even though it was my first full season pitching I had a blast and will contiue to get better and it is because of facing good teams like you guys. Thanks again and sorry to get off track of the topic at hand.
 

Youngun23

Addicted to Softballfans
Young players don’t want to fail or strikeout that’s why the play slow pitch and are content with hitting four long fly balls, drinking 3 beers, and losing 27-23 at the end of the day.
Young pitching? Forget it, the old timers and veterans chased us all away. There’s constant bitching and moaning about legalities of pitching, (even when 99% of the people doing the bitching don’t know the rule) you all talk so much trash, and there’s so much testosterone involved in every game that it just becomes not worth putting up with. Every advantage in modified is geared toward the hitter whether its small strike zones, loaded or composite bats, the pitching rules. But that doesn’t stop whack jobs who fly off the handle at the slightest disagreement of either their bat, or an umpire’s zone or the perceived slight lifting of a pitcher’s foot.
I started playing fastpitch when I moved away from the Northeast because there’s no modified anywhere and it was the best thing I ever did. There are many of the same problems as modified but there isn’t as much testosterone because everyone ultimately respects that a 70 mph fastball to the ribs is a great equalizer.
I agree with Joe to a point, you want to play bowling style go play slowpitch, at least hitting it off a 12 foot arc requires some skill, basic bowling style is slightly ahead of golf on the hitting spectrum. I aim that response more to the Class A guys going to those tournaments, than I do those who already play it. You guys who already play it, keep playing it, its your game. I don’t say that as an elitist, I say it as someone who wants to challenge myself constantly. I started in bowling modified, moved up to open, and now windmill, I imagine as I get older my career may swing back the other way but for those who don’t want to challenge themselves to see how far they can go, and are content hitting pus, well that’s your prerogative.
As for enforcing illegal pitches, put the blame on the umps in league play if you want, but the reality is they aren’t calling 49 illegal pitches on a Tuesday night game for $30 a game. For one it’s gonna take 3 hours to play, and for two it’s going to spark a whole lot of controversy and make for a heated game, who the hell wants that headache? One of the biggest problems in our game is the best umpires want no part of umpiring men’s games because the attitudes are out of control.
The biggest reason sponsors are gone is the fact its not a tax write off to sponsor a team anymore, and the cost of traveling to these games.
If you want to promote the game to young people, it starts with leagues. You have to put ads in newspapers, online, and anywhere else to try to get new young people to play. They aren’t going to just willingly travel without ever playing, but once they get a taste of it they usually want more. The other thing is put them on an equal playing field, by either giving them a pitcher, eliminating composite bats they might not be able to afford or immersing a few with veterans. The last one works best, the veterans I played with an against helped get me to where I am now as a player and more importantly as a coach, and made my experience far better than playing with a bunch of rookies, which I did when I first broke in and got my ass kicked all the time
 

sugarbearpr

Addicted to Softballfans
Hosting 2 tourneys in 2011

There seems to be a shift in modify (open major - class A), sling pitch teams moving to fastpitch. Due to the lack of teams playing at this level. I believe every attempt has been made to try to revive this game, a pitchers list have been created to prevent teams from stacking up on all the best pitchers.. To allow for a more even playing field.

So WHY do you think the numbers are so down.. And have been for several years now…

Also - If you plan on running a open class (sling) pitch tournament (ASA or ISA) in 2011 please list it.

We (Durham Speedboys) are hosting two tourneys in 2011. The first one will be April 9-10 and the second will be July 23-24. We are using 9 man ASA rules with all cleats allowed and no pitchers from the ASA major list. This will be our third year hosting and it has been getting better each time.
 

TH#2

Addicted to Softballfans
sugarbearpr - Thanks for the tourney info.

Question - why are you guys using the ASA major pitchers list, its so out dated. All the 9 man A pitchers out there are hit able.



We (Durham Speedboys) are hosting two tourneys in 2011. The first one will be April 9-10 and the second will be July 23-24. We are using 9 man ASA rules with all cleats allowed and no pitchers from the ASA major list. This will be our third year hosting and it has been getting better each time.
 

sugarbearpr

Addicted to Softballfans
That's what my coach has been saying. If there is a list that is more up to date, like the ISA list, we will use that. Also, if it will draw more teams, I can talk to him and see about dropping the list all together.

Thanks.
 

blakcherry329

Well-Known Member
Young players don’t want to fail or strikeout that’s why the play slow pitch and are content with hitting four long fly balls, drinking 3 beers, and losing 27-23 at the end of the day.
Young pitching? Forget it, the old timers and veterans chased us all away. There’s constant bitching and moaning about legalities of pitching, (even when 99% of the people doing the bitching don’t know the rule) you all talk so much trash, and there’s so much testosterone involved in every game that it just becomes not worth putting up with. Every advantage in modified is geared toward the hitter whether its small strike zones, loaded or composite bats, the pitching rules. But that doesn’t stop whack jobs who fly off the handle at the slightest disagreement of either their bat, or an umpire’s zone or the perceived slight lifting of a pitcher’s foot.
I started playing fastpitch when I moved away from the Northeast because there’s no modified anywhere and it was the best thing I ever did. There are many of the same problems as modified but there isn’t as much testosterone because everyone ultimately respects that a 70 mph fastball to the ribs is a great equalizer.
I agree with Joe to a point, you want to play bowling style go play slowpitch, at least hitting it off a 12 foot arc requires some skill, basic bowling style is slightly ahead of golf on the hitting spectrum. I aim that response more to the Class A guys going to those tournaments, than I do those who already play it. You guys who already play it, keep playing it, its your game. I don’t say that as an elitist, I say it as someone who wants to challenge myself constantly. I started in bowling modified, moved up to open, and now windmill, I imagine as I get older my career may swing back the other way but for those who don’t want to challenge themselves to see how far they can go, and are content hitting pus, well that’s your prerogative.
As for enforcing illegal pitches, put the blame on the umps in league play if you want, but the reality is they aren’t calling 49 illegal pitches on a Tuesday night game for $30 a game. For one it’s gonna take 3 hours to play, and for two it’s going to spark a whole lot of controversy and make for a heated game, who the hell wants that headache? One of the biggest problems in our game is the best umpires want no part of umpiring men’s games because the attitudes are out of control.
The biggest reason sponsors are gone is the fact its not a tax write off to sponsor a team anymore, and the cost of traveling to these games.
If you want to promote the game to young people, it starts with leagues. You have to put ads in newspapers, online, and anywhere else to try to get new young people to play. They aren’t going to just willingly travel without ever playing, but once they get a taste of it they usually want more. The other thing is put them on an equal playing field, by either giving them a pitcher, eliminating composite bats they might not be able to afford or immersing a few with veterans. The last one works best, the veterans I played with an against helped get me to where I am now as a player and more importantly as a coach, and made my experience far better than playing with a bunch of rookies, which I did when I first broke in and got my ass kicked all the time

Hmmmmm, sounds elitist to me, but that's just my opinion...:p Every type of softball calls for it's own set of skills. The old timers and veterans are the ones with testosterone overload and trash talking??? Really???:rolleyes: A-holes are a-holes and a fastball to the ribs won't change that. Won't that just get someone plunked on your team?

I don't know what kind of leagues you were playing in, but I haven't experienced any of that in NNJ. I guess if you don't have assertive umps that crap will go on. But if the ump takes charge, whether he is good or bad, the games should run semi-smoothly. Also, I guess more bitching happens in strict bowling leagues. My leagues are not as strict about the pitching motion as long as you come straight through. (and one league is pretty much "anything goes", but that's a clincher league).
 

Youngun23

Addicted to Softballfans
I don’t think that was too elitist, because like you said each level requires a set of skills. I’m at a point where I can continue to try to climb the ladder and see how high of a level I can reach and find my niche. 10 years from now, I’ll probably work my way back down as my skills begin to erode. My problem is only with the folks my age hitting three bombs, and pimping it around the bases, and then coming back to play at that same level again, never challenging themselves to try something a little harder.
Having played both levels, modified teams play far better defense than fastptich teams, that's a big reason I bet why the Swash has done so well at C nationals, and why the Legends did three years ago.
Maybe oldtimers was the wrong word choice, but veterans are not anyone in their mid to late 30s and above, and when I first started, anyone actually in their thirties is someone I consider to be a veteran, and there is a lot of animosity and intensity that can sometimes get out of hand, it especially happens at tournaments. It’s not everybody, but like anything a select few a-holes can ruin it for everyone.
And no I’ve played in some leagues without assertive umps, and I blame much of it on them, but that goes back to the point I made that many of the best umpires don’t want to do men’s games, it’s not worth the headache to them. Some really enjoy it, but a great majority do not.
And I have only played in one bowling league and that lasted all of 1 inning for me, so much of the bitching where I played occurred in alleged open leagues where anything was supposed to go.
 

Coachb12

Addicted to Softballfans
Alot of 10 man B teams can't move up because their pitchers are bowlers.You can't expect them to go against a sling pitcher who is Class A.Their hitters may not be good enough to hit slingers.They may also not have enough team speed to play with only 3 outfielders.Alot of 10 man leagues are straight softball with no bunting or stealing.In my area a clincher ball is used.They may have little or no experience defending bunts and base stealers and trying to steal bases or bunting.I would say most of these teams will either go to 10 man tournaments or only play in straight softball leagues and not enter any tournaments.It costs too much money to travel to a tournament and get mercy ruled evey game and not even have a chance to win a game.
 

sparq it

The Rookie
so ur saying bogies a liar..

:confused:FRom buck 42 with the long hair....
Explain this to me about paying pitchers. I played with CWR this year. We had four pitchers who pitched for us in several tournaments. Not one of them recieved a dime from anyone or had the rooms paid for. We won including last year the NIT 09, early bird in March, Mike Purcell Invitational, Elanco Memorial day, Warren Garoni Invitational, Finshed in 7th place in MD fastpitch tournament, NIT '10 champs and this years ISA worlds. We did that by not paying anyone to pitch or play and everyone put money out of pocket to travel to these events. We had great chemistry on the team and alot of talent. We did not care who we played or who pitched against us. It started to become a challange for us to beat the best and we did.

The pitchers we had were not on any list that the ISA had. The only one that may be on there is Bogie. But what I am saying is if you want to be the best you have to beat the best and you don't get that by complaining about the pitching. We did not care how they threw you still have to hit it and field your position.
 
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