Tourney softball is dumb

[rhound50]

We played in an E tourney this weekend, coach picked this tourney because we got 5 home runs when we normally get zero or occasionally 1. The tourney was fun, good competition, far fewer middle shots and 24 teams which is almost unheard of here outside of States/Regionals.

Kinda makes me wonder if associations are killing their own business with such strict home run limits and even harsh penalties like inning ending offensive ejection for dbos. I understand that the limits are an attempt to make people play up but that has completely failed at least in Nor. Cal. Almost all our tournaments are 0 home runs and yet we still send 30-40 teams to E worlds and 3 or 4 to D and above. I mean you really don't have to even be good at softball to hit a ball 300 feet with todays bats. I just don't buy the idea that if you can hit home runs you shouldn't be playing E, we have all see terrible league players hit them. Softball in Nor.Cal has slowly been dying over the last decade with fewer and fewer teams every year. I really feel like changing some of the home run rules to make it more fun might increase popularity of softball overall.

 

[Joker]

oh good, this crybaby thread again

 

[ns09]

What's dumb about having fun, good comp and less middle shots?

 

[phxraida15]

Our C tournies out here don't even get 5 home runs.... If people would stop shaving their bats, they wouldn't have an OE problem... Ijs....

 

[jbo911]

He's saying this tourney was fun, but association tournies aren't fun.

They've tried every negative punishment to try and make people move up. They should try some positives, and being able to hit one more homerun per game isn't enough. Restrict prize packages, restrict worlds, or make the prizes at the E level basically an insult.


Sandbagging is the problem. HR limits aren't the answer. They're not killing themselves, the number of associations is what has watered everything down. Prestigious tournies barely exist anymore because everyone runs from competition so you can't build one and old ones are dying.

 

[FULKnSEEDS]

Our C tournies out here don't even get 5 home runs.... If people would stop shaving their bats, they wouldn't have an OE problem... Ijs....

You must be a slap hitter with zero power. Hard hit line drives go out with stock bats too. I'm not a great player but decent size and when I hit a ball well it's always a threat to leave the yard line drive or not. Just bc people can hit balls out doesn't mean they shave their bats not does it mean they are a great player. OE is the single dumbest rule I've ever seen in any "sport"

 

[FULKnSEEDS]

He's saying this tourney was fun, but association tournies aren't fun.

They've tried every negative punishment to try and make people move up. They should try some positives, and being able to hit one more homerun per game isn't enough. Restrict prize packages, restrict worlds, or make the prizes at the E level basically an insult.


Sandbagging is the problem. HR limits aren't the answer. They're not killing themselves, the number of associations is what has watered everything down. Prestigious tournies barely exist anymore because everyone runs from competition so you can't build one and old ones are dying.

A buddy of mine suggested that there should be no payouts in E. Maybe that would be some incentive for teams to move up. Idk. It's terrible. I think we have one c team around here but plenty d teams that should be. Our NSA gold state had 8 teams I think? Maybe 9?

 

[phxraida15]

You must be a slap hitter with zero power. Hard hit line drives go out with stock bats too. I'm not a great player but decent size and when I hit a ball well it's always a threat to leave the yard line drive or not. Just bc people can hit balls out doesn't mean they shave their bats not does it mean they are a great player. OE is the single dumbest rule I've ever seen in any "sport"

I can hit them out... My son who's 16 years old can hit them out.. That wasn't the point I was making... Does the rule suck? Absolutely! But it doesn't bother the teams that make it to E worlds every year right? Every year more than 400 teams participate in E worlds combined... The rules must not really suck if it's the most saturated division...

 

[louconn]

maybe people should realize that rec/E are for rec/E players. instead of 90% of players playing E. maybe that would fix the problems a bit.

 

[stork]

I would not want to play in a tourney with 400 teams. That is excessive imo.

 

[phxraida15]

I would not want to play in a tourney with 400 teams. That is excessive imo.

Not one bracket... I'm saying combined.... West, East and North worlds...

 

[rhound50]

oh good, this crybaby thread again

Yup softball was fun, maybe more of what was fun would make softball more fun for everyone. Defiantly sounds whiny to me.

What's dumb about having fun, good comp and less middle shots?

That the rules set that caused his fun tournament happens maybe once a year.

Our C tournies out here don't even get 5 home runs.... If people would stop shaving their bats, they wouldn't have an OE problem... Ijs....

I mean you and I both play in hot spots for people swinging glass, I totally agree its a big issue but until someone actually takes steps to keep people from doing it people aren;t gonna stop on their own.

He's saying this tourney was fun, but association tournies aren't fun.

They've tried every negative punishment to try and make people move up. They should try some positives, and being able to hit one more homerun per game isn't enough. Restrict prize packages, restrict worlds, or make the prizes at the E level basically an insult.

Sandbagging is the problem. HR limits aren't the answer. They're not killing themselves, the number of associations is what has watered everything down. Prestigious tournies barely exist anymore because everyone runs from competition so you can't build one and old ones are dying.

Around here it is pretty much just USSSA or you can drive 2 hrs to play NSA, but USSSA is dying. Less and less teams playing E each year. Our upper program is non existent we have opens which are D and up and its the same 4 teams every weekend unless a couple don't play then the open gets cancelled cause no on wants to play a 2 team tourney. The only decent C team moved to conference because beating the same 4 local D teams wasn't fun anymore. I've been playing a long time, I see a lot of talented guys quitting the game and I don't see an equal amount of new talent coming up. For kids out of baseball I wonder if the idea that you can't hit home runs at all turns them off to softball. If softball was the way it is now in 1997 when I stopped playing baseball I probably wouldn't have played.

Hitting a home run doesn't make you good at softball. Instead of trying to use home runs to force people to move up, the directors really need to do their jobs and know the players and teams in their area and bump the players who have no business playing E which is supposed to be rec. Punishing home runs hasn't done anything other than turn big tournaments into poopy fests where guys who can mash are scared to swing hard. Every year I hear rumors that the rules are gonna change and they never do. I agree that E(rec) shouldn't have a worlds but it makes them so much money it will never change.

maybe people should realize that rec/E are for rec/E players. instead of 90% of players playing E. maybe that would fix the problems a bit.

Agreed but while I'm a good E player I'm not good enough to play up and at 37 years old with a job, wife and kid I'm not getting better.

 

[stork]

Not one bracket... I'm saying combined.... West, East and North worlds...

I never went to worlds and I knew there was a lot so that is a little more believable.

Worlds would be great and all but honestly I just like to play a one day tourney or occasional 2 day. Idgaf the sanction, just don't make me commit to more than that.

 

[phxraida15]

I never went to worlds and I knew there was a lot so that is a little more believable.

Worlds would be great and all but honestly I just like to play a one day tourney or occasional 2 day. Idgaf the sanction, just don't make me commit to more than that.

208 teams in East, 155 teams in West, 58 in North... That was last years total... All we play is Usssa, and we use national rules in every E tourney....

 

[stork]

Our tourney teams are just the guys from different teams we play with that are free that weekend. And sometimes we still have to pick up joe blow to have enough. Not living in the city anymore, options are limited. I am ok with it at this stage of the game. Seniors a few years off, literally.

 

[rhound50]

208 teams in East, 155 teams in West, 58 in North... That was last years total... All we play is Usssa, and we use national rules in every E tourney....

I guess its probably best for the teams that go to worlds but playing every tourney with an inning ending offensive ejection for a dbo would make me not want to play softball. I heard from an umpire at worlds last year that in his part of AZ 3 DBOs and you lose the game automatically. Sounds like the opposite of fun to me

 

[stork]

I blame the instant-gratification society of today. OE is I-G for someone I guess too.

 

[phxraida15]

I guess its probably best for the teams that go to worlds but playing every tourney with an inning ending offensive ejection for a dbo would make me not want to play softball. I heard from an umpire at worlds last year that in his part of AZ 3 DBOs and you lose the game automatically. Sounds like the opposite of fun to me

In ASA we get 2, and its 1up to 5 after that... But it's kinda crazy cause all the better teams won't play ASA, they rather play Usssa...

 

[AreJay]

Sandbagging is the problem. HR limits aren't the answer. They're not killing themselves, the number of associations is what has watered everything down. Prestigious tournies barely exist anymore because everyone runs from competition so you can't build one and old ones are dying.

I agree with the sandbagging being the problem. Too many times in Kansas, a team wins E state, then promptly disbands to reform under a different name to continue to play E rather than play D.

Years ago, I was playing in an E tourney. During our game, one of the opponents who was 3-3 with 3 opposite field paint-the-line triples, left in the middle of the game to run over to the other side of the complex to play with a C team. But two games later, he was back to playing on an E team.

I always thought the idea was to move up and not down. Silly me.

 

[jbo911]

I don't like UTrip, so there's that. If E makes them money and they cancel it, how much will they really lose? Won't most of those teams play D? As long as they can bump the teams in D that should be playing C to C I think all of them would. I'd MUCH rather go to worlds in D than E.

I will say this, in south GA UTrip and sandbagging sucked. I played Freedom lower with 2 HRs and the games were way more balanced than even UTrip E. Same for WSL. Granted, in WSL we got one homerun and then just an out until State and World. The real problem I've seen in UTrip is a lack of Director control.

 

[Joker]

why do you have to hit HRs to have fun at this game?

 

[stork]

I hit my token HR for the season last week. It was against a ****ty team we were blowing out of course. Wasn't all that fun tbqh.

 

[Joker]

i enjoy hitting inside the park HRs

 

[stork]

I used to, but the running part is kind of a drag nowadays. Triples are just about the most running I want to do.

 

[Joker]

that's not what i said

 

[vahntitrio]

Huff n Puff here in Minnesota gets 64 Men's teams and 32 women's teams to play. The grand prize is a T-Shirt. 2 HRs per inning though, and for some reason some teams will still tank to get in the 0-2 bracket even though there is no prize money.

 

[2spdturbo]

Homeruns Rec/E's means bat flip heaven.
I saw to many to count.

 

[jbo911]

I don't have to hit HRs to have fun, but I like to swing hard without worrying I'm going to make 3 outs on one swing if I just happen to crush a pitch with a tailwind or extra backspin. I'd love to play with open fences.

 

[LS AzZkIkr]

If the directors want to truly keep players from sandbagging them there is only one answer. Instead of ruining the game for many with strict home run rules, become more strict with player indentification and their playing abilities! You can have no more than three upper players on a team and actually keep track of the unknown players after they play 2 tournaments in any given association. Another option that may work is if an upper player chooses to play down, they MUST swing wood!

 

[jbo911]

If the directors want to truly keep players from sandbagging them there is only one answer. Instead of ruining the game for many with strict home run rules, become more strict with player indentification and their playing abilities! You can have no more than three upper players on a team and actually keep track of the unknown players after they play 2 tournaments in any given association. Another option that may work is if an upper player chooses to play down, they MUST swing wood!

They bought all these compression testers, how hard would it have been to spend have that money and bought some ID machines and required every player to have a UTrip ID to play in a sanctioned UTrip event? No ID, no play. It's pretty simple. You don't even need pictures on the IDs, make it a rule you must have your driver's license and ID to play.

There are a million things they could do, but they're afraid a team will back out on a tourney. I can't imagine more teams backing out than already do because they don't want to play IEO.