Tourney softball is dumb

[dremersvision]

then those guys that smash should not be playing against true e-ballers and should be playing in their proper division

How do you get them in the proper division sir?


I know a team right now in a rec ball league that has nothing but travel ball players on their roster.....One of their players actually played for team USA futures. Now, how in heavens does something like that even occur?

 

[Joker]

LDs and TDs need to actually do their jobs

 

[Stretch19]

LDs and TDs need to actually do their jobs

........./thread

 

[single wally]

What incentives do LDs/TDs have to do their jobs properly? What incentives do teams have not to sandbag? Very little to both, so the bs will continue until that changes.

 

[Joker]

they can be fired

 

[Stretch19]

but as long as they are bringing in $$$, they wont be

 

[Joker]

so there is no way to fix it, stop starting stupid ass threads like this

 

[Joker]

Which brings us to another point... upper leagues are getting harder and harder to come by. The great majority of the leagues around here are D rec or E. This creates a problem when good teams get in these leagues. Do good teams WANT to play D rec? Hell no, but they will if nothing better is offered. These harebrained LDs need to realize that there are plenty of good players out there who want to play league. They should offer them a night or two a week of good, solid league. Instead, they offer D rec every single night and then people ***** when good teams start filtering into these leagues simply because they have no alternative.

i see teams playing d-rec who have no business playing d-rec when a d-comp league is offered the same night

the new guy up in westy seems to have a good handle on things. the assclown before him was ****ing terrible and the girl before him was just as bad

 

[Superstar555]

Let's go back to the steel bats...just like Dad used. I still have the 38oz Thumper that I spent the week hitting rocks (literally) with and he spent the weekends hitting lasers with.

Our game is a pale shadow of the game our parents played, and the bat wars have much to do with that.

 

[rhound50]

Let's go back to the steel bats...just like Dad used. I still have the 38oz Thumper that I spent the week hitting rocks (literally) with and he spent the weekends hitting lasers with.

Our game is a pale shadow of the game our parents played, and the bat wars have much to do with that.

I have a 34/38 black magic in my garage. Feels like I'm swinging a pick ax compared to the 26oz I swing now.

 

[Muscles220]

Around here I'm not sure that C or D are any tougher than E. People are so afraid of competition that they won't play up, but the resut is that tey play the same good teams they tried to avoid and just do it at the levels that are supposed to befor occasional players.

 

[bigdog2003]

We played a lower tournament last weekend. We are just getting a team together to get serious about weekends, took 5 guys from our league team, 5 guys from other league teams, and 1 guy we picked up off the state boards, 1st time we played as a team. We played 2 bronze teams, and 2 rec teams. 1st game was a bronze team that has been together a few years, they beat us 22-9. We played 2 rec teams our next 2 games and it wasn't close, 1st game we were up 16-0 after we batted once and the next we won 24-10. Last game was another bronze team and we lost 12-10.

We are already talking about just moving up next year. We are playing a few more tournaments this year as rec to see how things go, but the games against other rec teams weren't much fun. 1 game we only played 3 1/2 innings, no fun at all for either team in a game like that. I think something needs to be done to classify teams better by TD's, but teams need to do it themselves. I guess some of them would rather have a sure thing they can compete in at the rec level than step up and maybe have to play ball to win.

 

[scrub]

It stands to reason that some bigwig in the usssa organization had a younger brother with downs syndrome. Upon his birthday, he was told, "Anything you want, Jamey. It's yours. You name it and I will make it happen slugger!" So Jamey sat. And he thought. And he thought some more. Then voila! The offensive ejection rule was born.

*No offense to those with downs syndrome or family members. They are actually much brighter than this

 

[shaunt]

Yeah I've heard the same thing, its so hard to classify players, sorry but that it a load of crap. I have played every other weekend of less for the last 4 or 5 years and I can pretty much tell you who should be where. A state director who's job it is to know the teams and players who runs tournaments almost every weekend should be far better at it than I am. The problem is our state director is completely useless, I've seen him at a tourney past 10am only a handful of times in 5 years. He usually collects the money then leaves and lets someone else run his tourneys. Really hard to rank players when you don't actually do your job.



God forbid people have fun playing softball, this **** is supposed to be serious bidness.

Well McKinley is gone after this year and I've been told by a few people all NorCal E teams will be bumped to D next year. We will see if this happens or makes a difference.

I play on registered E team but pretty much play D/open all year because it's more fun and better competition. Only reason we stay E is to go to worlds in Vegas, can't afford to go Florida.

 

[rhound50]

Well McKinley is gone after this year and I've been told by a few people all NorCal E teams will be bumped to D next year. We will see if this happens or makes a difference.

I play on registered E team but pretty much play D/open all year because it's more fun and better competition. Only reason we stay E is to go to worlds in Vegas, can't afford to go Florida.

Yeah I heard the same about Mckinley but I've also heard that rumor a number of times over the past 5 years and its never actually happened. There was a rumor that he got fired this winter but turned out not to be the case. I do know the politics behind what happened this year so there is some hope that it will actually happen. I'm hopeful BG takes over as state director, he did a great job in NSA actually keeping bronze for bronze teams, though he is left with a giant turd from JM.

I have no idea how they would bump all E teams to D. Would that mean everyone who is on any E team roster would become a D chip? I personally don't see it happening. It is going to take a couple of years of bumping teams and not letting everyone get reranked to actually have enough players in the D/C pool to actually force teams to play D. My opinion, they should bump all teams who won any WSQ/NIT/States and bump everyone who does decent at worlds. Force those teams and players to only play D for a year and not rerank anyone. Its gonna piss people off and there is going to be the crying that "I want to play E, D is to hard." It will cause some people to stop playing but because JM was willing to rerank anyone and everyone there is no way to force people to play up that doesn't involve some pain for some players.

 

[Muscles220]

Here's a thought...what if E, or E and D didn't go all the way to worlds? That would force the really serious guys to bump and leave a division or two for league guys that want to play in the occasional tourny. You could even increase the number of teams per division that go to worlds so that there are a similar number of teams that go to Worlds, they just have to play up.

 

[jbo911]

Yeah I heard the same about Mckinley but I've also heard that rumor a number of times over the past 5 years and its never actually happened. There was a rumor that he got fired this winter but turned out not to be the case. I do know the politics behind what happened this year so there is some hope that it will actually happen. I'm hopeful BG takes over as state director, he did a great job in NSA actually keeping bronze for bronze teams, though he is left with a giant turd from JM.

I have no idea how they would bump all E teams to D. Would that mean everyone who is on any E team roster would become a D chip? I personally don't see it happening. It is going to take a couple of years of bumping teams and not letting everyone get reranked to actually have enough players in the D/C pool to actually force teams to play D. My opinion, they should bump all teams who won any WSQ/NIT/States and bump everyone who does decent at worlds. Force those teams and players to only play D for a year and not rerank anyone. Its gonna piss people off and there is going to be the crying that "I want to play E, D is to hard." It will cause some people to stop playing but because JM was willing to rerank anyone and everyone there is no way to force people to play up that doesn't involve some pain for some players.

It would be nice if they'd just do away with appeals. You get bumped, you play at that level. Taking the year off doesn't drop you back down either.

The fact that you can even appeal to play lower is about as mind numbing to me as paying to cheat and being punished for hitting homeruns.

 

[rhound50]

It would be nice if they'd just do away with appeals. You get bumped, you play at that level. Taking the year off doesn't drop you back down either.

The fact that you can even appeal to play lower is about as mind numbing to me as paying to cheat and being punished for hitting homeruns.

The problem is the ranking system is solely based on what teams you have played on. There are a couple of local guys who were bench warmers on a local team that was mediocre most of the year in 2014. The sponsor who probably knew he had little chance to win a ring at 100 team western worlds decided to go to Northen Worlds because the competition was softer and there were far fewer teams. I think they ended up 5th out of 50 something and got a national bump. This is where the ranking system sucks, all their players are bumped including the guys who barely played, for them being a D chip is a death sentence, they barely played on a mediocre E team no way they can find meaningful playing time in D and no decent E team is going to pick them up to count as a D chip. This is why the appeals process should exist. The issue in Nor. Cal is out state director will rerank damn near anyone and when it comes time for worlds a bunch of C players get re-ranked to D so E worlds. It doesn't take a genius to realize what happens when a number of years in a row more people are being reranked then are bumped, we have 100 E team and 8 D/C teams.

 

[AreJay]

Perhaps the organizations could come together and figure out a way to unify classifications across the board. If you are classified as an E player in U-trip, you're an E player in ASA or NSA, etc.

Several years back we played in one of the first NSA E state tourneys in Kansas. We showed up and were greeted by the No. 1 and No. 2 ranked D teams in U-trip, competing in E. One of those two teams went and won the NSA Class E worlds.

 

[ddoubler]

Perhaps the organizations could come together and figure out a way to unify classifications across the board. If you are classified as an E player in U-trip, you're an E player in ASA or NSA, etc.

Several years back we played in one of the first NSA E state tourneys in Kansas. We showed up and were greeted by the No. 1 and No. 2 ranked D teams in U-trip, competing in E. One of those two teams went and won the NSA Class E worlds.

That right there is on the director. No reason they should play down if they are ranked 1 and 2 in D. Guess it was hard to turn down 2 entrie fees of $250+

 

[Muscles220]

Here's a thought...what if E, or E and D didn't go all the way to worlds? That would force the really serious guys to bump and leave a division or two for league guys that want to play in the occasional tourny. You could even increase the number of teams per division that go to worlds so that there are a similar number of teams that go to Worlds, they just have to play up.

Crickets on this idea? A chance at worlds was specifically mentioned as one the reasons to play down. E, being the lowest classification, should be for guys who are just making their way into tourny ball or guys who aren't serious enough to care about getting to Worlds.

 

[jbo911]

Crickets on this idea? A chance at worlds was specifically mentioned as one the reasons to play down. E, being the lowest classification, should be for guys who are just making their way into tourny ball or guys who aren't serious enough to care about getting to Worlds.

I think we started discussing it around post #5 where I said basically the same thing.

 

[Cuervo13]

My take is a team that has no interest in playing a national or world tourney in September / October should schedule a festival circuit. I know in Nor Cal that can be accomplished by playing All World, Open Usssa, Upper NSA tourneys if you want the bombs.

If I was running an E/D/Bronze/Silver team in Nor Cal and planned on playing a Utrip/ASA/NSA world/regional I wouldn't even waste my time with tourneys that let you hit bombs. S@@@ all I would do in August would have practice hitting marsh-mellows.

The same things been happening a decade for teams who travel to Florida, We hit bombs all year and expect to do the same in Florida or at least hit rocks that we've been using all year. The secret to winning in Florida in September is endurance, defense and small ball.

 

[rhound50]

Crickets on this idea? A chance at worlds was specifically mentioned as one the reasons to play down. E, being the lowest classification, should be for guys who are just making their way into tourny ball or guys who aren't serious enough to care about getting to Worlds.

We discussed this already, I personally think its a good idea. The problem is USSSA E worlds are their biggest money maker. They aren't going to give away their cash cow. Sure some teams would move up and play D or C so they could go to worlds but they would lose a lot of business to other organizations that offered E worlds, so it wont happen.

Perhaps the organizations could come together and figure out a way to unify classifications across the board. If you are classified as an E player in U-trip, you're an E player in ASA or NSA, etc.

Several years back we played in one of the first NSA E state tourneys in Kansas. We showed up and were greeted by the No. 1 and No. 2 ranked D teams in U-trip, competing in E. One of those two teams went and won the NSA Class E worlds.

So this is BS and I would be pissed at the tourney director for allowing it. A national ranking system would be great but will never happen. Coordination between organizations isn't going to happen. They are all competitors so working together to make the game better isn't always in their best interest in making money and its a lot of work and coordination.

 

[ilyk2win]

Has to stop just being a money-grab for the associations.

There should be qualifications for entering Worlds.....hell once upon a time you had to earn it to some degree.

I think teams should be required to play "X" number of tourneys in that association to even be eligible. Players should also have a minimum requirement of tourneys attended.....as well as a minimum requirement for tourneys played with that specific team. Then you can have a general concept of who is sandbagging b/c you've seen them enough.

Teams with losing records on the year simply are not qualified to go to Worlds.

Players who didn't meet the minimum requirement are also not eligible.

You're only allowed "X" number of players who met the minimum requirement, but were on other teams. (e.g. 1-2 "pick-up" players). If the team you had all year doesn't have enough to go to Worlds, then you don't go!

Associations may take a hit initially, but when players/teams see that the ranking system is cleaned up a bit, the numbers will return to being high.

I also think players should have to register themselves with an association (one-time) and then their personal ID number from that association is how you identify them/add them to the roster. Would stop all the "oops, I guess I misspelled their name" or "Oh, I didn't know his name was Nathan, we've always just known him as Nate." Hell, I appear in the USSSA database as 5 different names......maybe 6.......b/c of that nonsense. None of them were done to cheat the system, just dumb coaches, but I know teams do that to hide players.

 

[ddoubler]

Has to stop just being a money-grab for the associations.

There should be qualifications for entering Worlds.....hell once upon a time you had to earn it to some degree.

I think teams should be required to play "X" number of tourneys in that association to even be eligible. Players should also have a minimum requirement of tourneys attended.....as well as a minimum requirement for tourneys played with that specific team. Then you can have a general concept of who is sandbagging b/c you've seen them enough.

Teams with losing records on the year simply are not qualified to go to Worlds.

Players who didn't meet the minimum requirement are also not eligible.

You're only allowed "X" number of players who met the minimum requirement, but were on other teams. (e.g. 1-2 "pick-up" players). If the team you had all year doesn't have enough to go to Worlds, then you don't go!

Associations may take a hit initially, but when players/teams see that the ranking system is cleaned up a bit, the numbers will return to being high.

I also think players should have to register themselves with an association (one-time) and then their personal ID number from that association is how you identify them/add them to the roster. Would stop all the "oops, I guess I misspelled their name" or "Oh, I didn't know his name was Nathan, we've always just known him as Nate." Hell, I appear in the USSSA database as 5 different names......maybe 6.......b/c of that nonsense. None of them were done to cheat the system, just dumb coaches, but I know teams do that to hide players.

I think you may be on to something... It would have to be done across the board though and unfortunately it won't be. That is why there are so many associations to play. People didn't like it one way so they made up another association to play how they wanted to play. Have you ever noticed when one association in your areas does something radically different then another association in that same areas does the exact opposite? It's in hopes to get people to play their game! As long as there is so many associations to chose from people won't have to play a certain way.

On a side note, who ever thought that classing a player or team based upon home runs is stupid. I know guys who have terrible swings and no talent and can hit homers. I also know guys who have talent but can't hit homers. Makes no sense to class people on that ability

 

[NorCal5150]

If USSSA had a D and C worlds closer to this side of the country it would make a huge difference with the sandbagging. The biggest excuse now is everyone wants to play E becasue there is a Worlds in Vegas. It way easier for teams that are paying their own bills to travel from CA to Vegas instead of going to Florida. I'd pesonally love to see a D and C worlds in CA, NV, OR, WA, UT, CO, or TX.

 

[jbo911]

Has to stop just being a money-grab for the associations.

There should be qualifications for entering Worlds.....hell once upon a time you had to earn it to some degree.

I think teams should be required to play "X" number of tourneys in that association to even be eligible. Players should also have a minimum requirement of tourneys attended.....as well as a minimum requirement for tourneys played with that specific team. Then you can have a general concept of who is sandbagging b/c you've seen them enough.

Teams with losing records on the year simply are not qualified to go to Worlds.

Players who didn't meet the minimum requirement are also not eligible.

You're only allowed "X" number of players who met the minimum requirement, but were on other teams. (e.g. 1-2 "pick-up" players). If the team you had all year doesn't have enough to go to Worlds, then you don't go!

Associations may take a hit initially, but when players/teams see that the ranking system is cleaned up a bit, the numbers will return to being high.

I also think players should have to register themselves with an association (one-time) and then their personal ID number from that association is how you identify them/add them to the roster. Would stop all the "oops, I guess I misspelled their name" or "Oh, I didn't know his name was Nathan, we've always just known him as Nate." Hell, I appear in the USSSA database as 5 different names......maybe 6.......b/c of that nonsense. None of them were done to cheat the system, just dumb coaches, but I know teams do that to hide players.

I had a coach put me down as j bo because he thought that was my actual name. Freedom and WSL both required us to play an NIT and State to go to worlds. We didn't have to win anything though. I agree with you though. You used to have to place high enough in an NIT or win states or regionals to go.

If they just want money and want to have a big ass fun tourney at Disney then do that, but keep worlds separate. Who wouldn't still want to go to get a chance to play on that big field at Disney? I know I would.

If USSSA had a D and C worlds closer to this side of the country it would make a huge difference with the sandbagging. The biggest excuse now is everyone wants to play E becasue there is a Worlds in Vegas. It way easier for teams that are paying their own bills to travel from CA to Vegas instead of going to Florida. I'd pesonally love to see a D and C worlds in CA, NV, OR, WA, UT, CO, or TX.

Or have a real Regionals like they used to. The last chance qualifier for teams that didn't win State or place high enough to qualify for worlds. Like back when every state didn't have their own "Regional" tournament. If you couldn't afford to go to worlds, or had a scheduling conflict, you could play regionals and still play teams from 4-5 different states.

 

[rhound50]

Has to stop just being a money-grab for the associations.

There should be qualifications for entering Worlds.....hell once upon a time you had to earn it to some degree.

I think teams should be required to play "X" number of tourneys in that association to even be eligible. Players should also have a minimum requirement of tourneys attended.....as well as a minimum requirement for tourneys played with that specific team. Then you can have a general concept of who is sandbagging b/c you've seen them enough.

Teams with losing records on the year simply are not qualified to go to Worlds.

Players who didn't meet the minimum requirement are also not eligible.

You're only allowed "X" number of players who met the minimum requirement, but were on other teams. (e.g. 1-2 "pick-up" players). If the team you had all year doesn't have enough to go to Worlds, then you don't go!

Associations may take a hit initially, but when players/teams see that the ranking system is cleaned up a bit, the numbers will return to being high.

I also think players should have to register themselves with an association (one-time) and then their personal ID number from that association is how you identify them/add them to the roster. Would stop all the "oops, I guess I misspelled their name" or "Oh, I didn't know his name was Nathan, we've always just known him as Nate." Hell, I appear in the USSSA database as 5 different names......maybe 6.......b/c of that nonsense. None of them were done to cheat the system, just dumb coaches, but I know teams do that to hide players.

The sad part is what it all comes down to is associations and directors fail the first line. They are all more concerned about their bottom line than they are about the game itself. Your suggestion about requiring some level of success to play worlds or requiring a certain number of tournaments played is a good one but it will never happen because it would mean less money. All the associations are more scared they are going to lose a couple of bucks to another association that they won't make changes that could potentially piss someone off and have them run to another association. The sad part is that their plans are so near sided, if they force teams to move up maybe they lose some teams who go play another association but by clearing out E for actual rec teams to play the game overall would grow and in the long run they make more money.

If USSSA had a D and C worlds closer to this side of the country it would make a huge difference with the sandbagging. The biggest excuse now is everyone wants to play E becasue there is a Worlds in Vegas. It way easier for teams that are paying their own bills to travel from CA to Vegas instead of going to Florida. I'd pesonally love to see a D and C worlds in CA, NV, OR, WA, UT, CO, or TX.

Its a chicken or the egg scenario, they wont have enough teams for western D worlds until they force teams to play up but one of the big reasons people don't want to play up is because there is no western D worlds.

 

[ilyk2win]

The idea of adding a "Western" D Worlds is sort of funny to me. It then only becomes a "Regional" and not a "World" once you have multiple/divided tourneys.

If the teams in CA played 3 tourneys a month instead of 4, they'd have enough money saved to go to Disney.

What's more important....playing every weekend or competing for an actual World title?