Trout
- Thread starter ns09
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rossthefireman
mexicola
Fro Joe
Snowden is a hero.
I love homers.............Let me guess Cabrera for MVP?
CHLOE&AIDAN
^^^ My Babies^^^
Trout will be the first $300,000,000.00 man.
bd22_pub
BBAT #16
i don't know if he will get MVP or not this year. especially since he's been hurt, and the Tigers have won without him. His numbers are not lying though, could be back to back MVP's.
Fro Joe
Snowden is a hero.
MVPs need to go to McCutchen and Trout. Defense and base running should matter as it's the most valuable PLAYER not hitter.
rossthefireman
mexicola
My homer pick is Donaldson but we all know damn well Cabrera is going to get it.
trip
stfu
you maniac, do you really think the tigers would be where they are without cabrera?
the angels would still be a .500 team without trout, one way or another.
3XC
Big Truss
Offensive WAR of 9.8 is higher than any player in baseball right now. He's so much better defensively than Cabrera or Chris Davis. He's the best player in baseball. So what did "everyone" expect? A .400 season? 60/60? None of that will ever happen.
All I know is that he's way, way better than Bryce Harper. Its not even close. I'd take Machado over Harper anyway, and Trout over either.
joey2525joey711
dodgers fan 4life
Trout needs to be a dodger he will play for a contender and get mvp every year for The next 10 years..but we all know he will be a Yankee soon
isthisshaved19
Addicted to Softballfans
as long as you understand that his leaving Anaheim is their doing, not his. They're the ones that chose to use his arbitration years against him rather than invest into him with that **** raise. Whether he ever admits it in public or not, the fact that they put so much $$ into Pujols and Hamilton has to burn a bit.
Fro Joe
Snowden is a hero.
I know WAR isn't the end all stat, but right now Cabrera has a 7.6 WAR. League average is about 2. As of today the Tigers would still be in first place with a league average 3rd baseman according to WAR. Cabrera is the best hitter in the league, but he is a DH playing 3rd and he clogs up the base paths. Those things are more than half the game. They should be of value when picking a MVP.
The Angels on the other hand would be in a much worse position than they are currently in. Why punish Trout, because he plays for an idiot owner that pays players for past performance instead of projected performance?
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3XC
Big Truss
According to baseball reference, although Trout leads in WAR (his value over a generic replacement level player at his position) Chris Davis leads in Win Shares added, meaning he makes his team better by playing more so than Trout does.
Arguably, if MVP is truly based on "value", not on stat production, the most valuable player to his team, or to any team, is Chris Davis. Leading baseball in total bases doesn't hurt, and leading in home runs alone gets most fans nodding their heads in agreement.
Arguably, if MVP is truly based on "value", not on stat production, the most valuable player to his team, or to any team, is Chris Davis. Leading baseball in total bases doesn't hurt, and leading in home runs alone gets most fans nodding their heads in agreement.
hrdchrgin13
Well-Known Member
WAR what is it good for?
EdFred
every day I'm shovelin'
Except he's not. Yeah, he doesn't steal bases, but he is not even close to a liability (when healthy) on the basepaths. He's actually one of the smartest baserunners, and gets an extra base when he probably shouldn't, because he can tell when a ball is going to drop, or be gapped.
And how exactly is he clogging up the bases when you have Fielder, and Martinez behind him? Neither of those guys are running him down. Yes, I realize you are anti-Cabrera for whatever reason, but damn, at least be factual.
And the problem with WAR is it's a made up stat that gets weighted based on someone's opinion. So some guy thinks stolen bases are super important, well now any guy who steals bases, is going to be automatically going to have a higher WAR. But, what good is stealing a base if the guy behind you is someone like Cabrera? Now you just took the bat out of the best hitter's hands to let a guy swing away that's batting 75 points less. That should be a negative to WAR. It's subjective. Might as well have French Olympic judges vote on how pretty a hit is and whether it should count or not.
goro25
Sin Vergüenza
OAKLAND -- Everybody likes Mike Trout.
Sabermetrics lust for him.
The jewel of sabermetrics, the all-encompassing Wins Above Replacement, gave Trout a score of 9.9 under the FanGraphs.com system (fWAR) heading into Tuesday's game at O.co Coliseum. Not only does he easily lead the Majors, as Pirates center fielder Andrew McCutchen is second at 7.7, but Trout is on the fringes of some pretty special history.
Trout's Major League-leading 10 fWAR last year was the highest in history for someone in his age-20 season. His current score would be the highest for someone in his age-21 season or younger, with Rogers Hornsby the current leader at 9.5 in 1917.
No player has posted a second straight 10-plus WAR campaign in his age-21 season. And the list of players -- any age -- to boast back-to-back such seasons is about as prestigious as it gets ...
• Ty Cobb (1910-11)
• Babe Ruth (1920-21, 1923-24, 1927-24, 1927-28, 1930-31)
• Hornsby (1921-22, 1924-25)
• Ted Williams (1941-42, 1946-47)
• Mickey Mantle (1956-57)
• Willie Mays (1964-65)
• Barry Bonds (2001-04)
Trout, who turned 22 on Aug. 7, entered Tuesday one double and one triple shy of being the first member of the 10-20-30-40 club, which respectively accounts for triples, homers, steals and doubles. He's drawn an American League-leading 100 walks, entered Tuesday 17 hits away from becoming the 11th player to notch 200 hits in his age-21 season and has a .436 on-base percentage that would be tops in Angels history if the season finished today.
With a first-inning homer on Tuesday night, he became the first player in AL history with 25 home runs, 30 steals and 100 walks in the same year.
In other words, Trout has done the impossible: He's improved on his historic rookie season.
"Nobody has a crystal ball, but Mike Trout had the talent to do what he did last year, and he has the talent to repeat it," Angels manager Mike Scioscia said. "He's not chasing numbers, and I think the guys who don't chase numbers usually play at a higher level because he's not affected by a negative performance in one game or one at-bat. He just comes back and keeps playing baseball. He has great makeup."
Sabermetrics lust for him.
The jewel of sabermetrics, the all-encompassing Wins Above Replacement, gave Trout a score of 9.9 under the FanGraphs.com system (fWAR) heading into Tuesday's game at O.co Coliseum. Not only does he easily lead the Majors, as Pirates center fielder Andrew McCutchen is second at 7.7, but Trout is on the fringes of some pretty special history.
Trout's Major League-leading 10 fWAR last year was the highest in history for someone in his age-20 season. His current score would be the highest for someone in his age-21 season or younger, with Rogers Hornsby the current leader at 9.5 in 1917.
No player has posted a second straight 10-plus WAR campaign in his age-21 season. And the list of players -- any age -- to boast back-to-back such seasons is about as prestigious as it gets ...
• Ty Cobb (1910-11)
• Babe Ruth (1920-21, 1923-24, 1927-24, 1927-28, 1930-31)
• Hornsby (1921-22, 1924-25)
• Ted Williams (1941-42, 1946-47)
• Mickey Mantle (1956-57)
• Willie Mays (1964-65)
• Barry Bonds (2001-04)
Trout, who turned 22 on Aug. 7, entered Tuesday one double and one triple shy of being the first member of the 10-20-30-40 club, which respectively accounts for triples, homers, steals and doubles. He's drawn an American League-leading 100 walks, entered Tuesday 17 hits away from becoming the 11th player to notch 200 hits in his age-21 season and has a .436 on-base percentage that would be tops in Angels history if the season finished today.
With a first-inning homer on Tuesday night, he became the first player in AL history with 25 home runs, 30 steals and 100 walks in the same year.
In other words, Trout has done the impossible: He's improved on his historic rookie season.
"Nobody has a crystal ball, but Mike Trout had the talent to do what he did last year, and he has the talent to repeat it," Angels manager Mike Scioscia said. "He's not chasing numbers, and I think the guys who don't chase numbers usually play at a higher level because he's not affected by a negative performance in one game or one at-bat. He just comes back and keeps playing baseball. He has great makeup."
Fro Joe
Snowden is a hero.
Anti-Cabrera? I've said many times that he's the best hitter in baseball. I'd love to have him on my favorite team. That's not what the MVP is about though.
You're right the stat of WAR is a completely made up stat to make saber guys look smart. Except for the fact that guys that traditionalists like the most are always towards the top in WAR.
He's a DH playing 3rd and the stats back that up. He's a negative win player on defense. He's still extremely valuable in spite of being slow and a back defender due to his explosive bat. Try to be somewhat subjective even if it means taking off your Tigers underwear.
EdFred
every day I'm shovelin'
And Trout is also a negative win player on defense. He was actually worse than Cabrera before Miguel got hurt. dWAR is even worse than oWAR when it comes to subjectivity. Does Trout REALLY cost his team a game in left? I doubt it. Does Cabrera REALLY cost his team a game point five at 3rd? I don't think either one is the case. WAR can't jsut be a stats formula, and that's the problem with it. The only way to truly establish a WAR - which is subjective anyway - is to have a groupd of 20 guys sit down, and watch every at bat and every play on defense, and say, "OK, what would have a AAA player done compared to Cabrera or Trout or (player)?"
A .330 batter could in theory hit twenty 2 out walk off home runs. His WAR at that point better damn well be near 20, beacuse his AAA replacement isn't going to do the same thing. But his WAR will probably be 4. Now really, is he only worth 4 wins? Hell no. And that's the problem with WAR.
EdFred
every day I'm shovelin'
That's not what WAR is - or for me what MVP. It's supposed to be a comparison between him and some pulled up some scrub 3B from AAA. You really think some scrub from AAA is going to bat 350 and knock in 140 with a 275 hitter behind him? Hell no. If Leyland was smart he would have flipped Prince and Miggy in the lineup long ago. Prince isn't protecting Cabrera this year at all. Detroit already has that scrub 3B on their roster with Don Kelly. HE ain't batting .350.
Yeah, if Davis or Ortiz bats in place of Cabrera Detroit is still in first, with Don Kelly batting 3 hole they aren't even close.
Though I got off track with WAR. But I'm not talking trade Cabrera for Davis, or any other 3 hole hitter as basis for MVP. I'm talking pretend that player doesn't even exist, and you've got some call up playing in his place. If Davis doesn't exist and Baltimore drops 14 game in the standings, then it's completely plausible that if Cabrera is gone, Detroit is in 2nd.
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