USSSA – Dead Ball Out-of-Play – How Many Bases?

[HowsTeddyLook]

Both scenarios outlined below took place on the same field. The backstop/dugout fence on the 1st base side only extends a few feet beyond the bag. (The actual field is pictured in the diagram.) Ground rules state that anytime a ball goes beyond this fence line (which extends all the way down RF), it’s a dead ball, out-of-play, runners advance with no liability. It’s common for an overthrow from SS or 3B to go out-of-play on this field.

Scenario #1: Ground ball fielded by the SS, throw to 1B is on target but first baseman bobbles and drops the ball, Batter/Runner is safe. Ball rolls slowly away from 1B towards RF line. After running past 1st base, B/R notices the ball (still in play) rolling away so he decides to take his chances and runs for 2nd base. B/R has taken just a few steps towards 2nd base when the ball, still slowly rolling away, reaches the fence line and comes to a rest about 1 ft into out-of-play territory.

Umpire sees that the ball has rolled out-of-play, calls a dead ball, and initially awards the R/B 2nd base with no liability. Batting team argues that the B/R should be awarded 3rd base because “he was already on his way to second.” Umpire changes his call and awards B/R 3rd base.

Scenario #2: Same situation as #1, except this time the B/R does not take off for 2nd base before the ball rolls out-of-play. After safely reaching 1st base while the 1B bobbles/drops the ball, B/R simply turns around and walks back to the bag to take his place as the runner on 1st base for the next batter. When the ball dribbles past the fence line, umpire calls dead ball and awards the B/R 2nd base. Nobody argues the call.

In both scenarios, the B/R had safely established 1st base while the ball was still live. The only difference was that in #1, B/R had taken a few steps towards 2nd base prior to the dead ball. B/R in scenario #1 was awarded 3rd base, B/R #2 was only awarded 2nd base.

Did the umpires get it right?

[GALLERY=media, 32900]Diamond - Out-of-Play by HowsTeddyLook posted Jul 1, 2019 at 8:10 PM[/GALLERY]

 

[beernbombs]

Award is from runner's position at time of throw. 2nd base is where the runner is placed.

 

[EAJuggalo]

What gave the ball the momentum to go out of play? If it was from the throw then the runner should have been placed at 2nd since the applicable rule is two bases from the time of the pitch. If the F3 gave the ball the momentum to go out of play then it would be two bases from that touch.

 

[HowsTeddyLook]

What gave the ball the momentum to go out of play? If it was from the throw then the runner should have been placed at 2nd since the applicable rule is two bases from the time of the pitch. If the F3 gave the ball the momentum to go out of play then it would be two bases from that touch.

That makes sense. The momentum that propelled the ball out of play was from the throw. The ball hit the glove of F3, but he really just failed at preventing the ball from going out of play - he did not cause it to roll farther but it did take about 4-5 seconds of rolling through the grass until the ball went out of play.

I wasn’t sure if these scenarios counted as overthrows because they each should be recorded as E3 in the scorebook. (Maybe the throws weren’t that great. I suppose it could be argued that they were throwing errors but they weren’t over F3’s head and directly into the stands.)

 

[HowsTeddyLook]

I remembered rule 8-7-F “every base runner is awarded two bases from last base occupied”, but since B/R was called safe at first base when the ball was still live, I wasn’t sure if 1st base then counted as his last occupied base when the ball finally rolled out of play.

This situation is clarified by #1 below: “batter’s and a base runner’s positions at the time of the pitch”, but for other base running situations that may not be so clear, does “last occupied base” mean to be at the time of pitch?

Rule 8: BASERUNNING
Sec. 7. BASE RUNNERS ARE ENTITLED TO ADVANCE WITHOUT LIABILITY TO BE PUT OUT:
F. When a ball is live after a batted ball and is overthrown into foul territory and is blocked.
EFFECT Sec. 7. F. In all cases, when a blocked ball occurs on an overthrown live ball, the ball is immediately dead. Each and every base runner is awarded two bases from last base occupied, unless required to retouch.
1. When a FIRST throw is made by an infielder trying for a first play, the award is made from the batter’s and a base runner’s positions at the time of the pitch.

 

[EAJuggalo]

In other situations, secondary throws, throws from the outfield etc., it would be two bases from the time the ball acquired the momentum to go out of play. Generally that means when the throw is released, but could mean other things as well. In your original scenario, if F3 had attempted to go get the ball before it went out of play and accidentally kicked it out of play it would have been two bases from the time they kicked it.