Video recording

[lukeamdman]

I play in a lower D USSSA league and this year I've been keeping track of our teams batting stats:

http://forums.softballfans.com/threads/spreadsheet-for-batting-stats.1443995/

To do that accurately, I snap a GoPro behind the fence at home plate and re-watch/fill in the spreadsheet later. Only takes a few minutes since I can skip all the defense.

A few umps have said it's against the rules to record the games but have been fine with me doing it...until last week. The ump saw the camera and said no more.

I just read through the USSSA rules and there's only a single mention of audio or video devices in section 2-14. It basically said no audio or video devices on the field of play. Our local city league rules has no mention of audio/video devices at all.

Since my camera is behind the fence and couldn't in any way interfere with the game, how is this a problem?

 

[Joker]

what did the ump and or LD say when you asked him?

 

[lukeamdman]

what did the ump and or LD say when you asked him?

They said it was against the rules, and since I hadn't looked it up I couldn't question it.

Now that I know, what do I do when they say the same thing next time the camera comes out?

 

[Wik]

We ran into this at Nationals....We would go live on FB here and there to give some friends/supporters a view of the games. I went live a couple times at Nationals and was told they were telling people they can't do that. I was not confronted by an ump or director, I guess they didn't see me doing it, but was told by three or four other people who were going live for other teams that had been caught.

They CLAIM it is a USSSA rule and that it has something to do with liability reasons. This sounds pretty lame to me but I am not diving into the rules a whole lot, let alone on something like this. It was innocent enough, nothing underhanded or to try and dispute any calls or other rules. Just live so others can watch.

Anyhow, thought I would mention it here since we heard something kind of similar.

 

[Joker]

They said it was against the rules, and since I hadn't looked it up I couldn't question it.

Now that I know, what do I do when they say the same thing next time the camera comes out?

what do you think you should say?

 

[lukeamdman]

what do you think you should say?

I can count on one hand the number of disagreements our team has had with an ump in the last 10 years, but past experience says any disagreement on any level only turns out bad.

If they bring it up again and I politely and respectfully say "here's the rule and I think this is okay" I don't think it'll end well even if I drop it after that.

 

[lukeamdman]

We ran into this at Nationals....We would go live on FB here and there to give some friends/supporters a view of the games. I went live a couple times at Nationals and was told they were telling people they can't do that. I was not confronted by an ump or director, I guess they didn't see me doing it, but was told by three or four other people who were going live for other teams that had been caught.

They CLAIM it is a USSSA rule and that it has something to do with liability reasons. This sounds pretty lame to me but I am not diving into the rules a whole lot, let alone on something like this. It was innocent enough, nothing underhanded or to try and dispute any calls or other rules. Just live so others can watch.

Anyhow, thought I would mention it here since we heard something kind of similar.

I checked the USSSA rules and the only issue is if the audio/video device is on the field of play. That I can understand because I can see some yahoo with a GoPro attached to a helmet while their on the field or something ridiculous.

We learned on day one that questioning a call from the ump is just self destruction so we'd never use the video for anything like that.

I suppose I could put it on a tripod and have one of my kids set it up near the bleachers. No way they could stop fans from recording anything.

 

[Wik]

I checked the USSSA rules and the only issue is if the audio/video device is on the field of play. That I can understand because I can see some yahoo with a GoPro attached to a helmet while their on the field or something ridiculous.

We learned on day one that questioning a call from the ump is just self destruction so we'd never use the video for anything like that.

I suppose I could put it on a tripod and have one of my kids set it up near the bleachers. No way they could stop fans from recording anything.

Ya I was coaching 1st base so I had it on the field in that capacity, but obviously when we were hitting I was in the dugout or outside of it....and I never personally got that warning, just others told me they had. Hopefully they can/will clarify this as far as being on the field vs outside of the field vs not allowed at all!

 

[EAJuggalo]

The issue at nationals was not recording. It was the streaming. USSSA requires a license to live stream any of it's competitions. I know we had to pay for the rights to stream a local tournament championship game this summer.

To the best of my knowledge there is nothing that says you can't record a game for personal use. You would have to get clarification from the National Office to be absolutely sure. If you attached it to the backstop that would be another deal altogether.

 

[NCASAUmp]

Speaking USA Softball...

I'm going to assume I've probably been recorded a couple hundred times over the years, either partial games or games in their entirety. I'm also going to assume that, try as I may to minimize them from happening, those recordings probably contain mistakes I've made. Hell, it wouldn't surprise me if I'm somewhere on YouTube with the overused title "Worst Softball Call Ever Made," followed by a thousand conspiracy theory-like posts about how I have it in for a team (and probably one I'd never met before). Comments questioning my hand/foot size are guaranteed.

That being said, I couldn't care less if you set up a camera behind the fence and record the game. I'll only have a problem with it if A) you try using the footage in the game somehow (either to argue with me or to gain some advantage) or B) if it's on the field or in the dugout. I have enough crap to worry about on the field. Don't make it an issue for me, and I won't make it an issue for you.

So as far as I'm concerned, as long as the Tourney Director doesn't have a problem with it, then I won't have a problem with it.

 

[Country469]

Legality of it in terms of broadcasting =/= legality of it being at the park and going live

This is more a lawyer issue than an umpire issue

 

[SevenBizzos]

Our local director said they had a lot of problems with teams pulling out the video to show how umps blew calls, so they banned it. But maybe we just have bad umps....?

 

[NCASAUmp]

Our local director said they had a lot of problems with teams pulling out the video to show how umps blew calls, so they banned it. But maybe we just have bad umps....?

Or maybe umps are human?

 

[Country469]

guys getting paid 25/game are expected to be perfect at what hey do, while they watch grown men boot balls for an hour

 

[EdFred]

Or maybe umps are human?

The 'problem' umps are the ones that get pissed off about it though. If someone shows me I blew a call (without stopping play to do so) on video, I'll probably look at it and figure out how I can get in a better position next time so I don't blow the call. I'm not going to consider it being shown up, but holy crap I know those guys are out there. Those umps probably wish they were police officers just so they can show people who is boss.

Though I'm willing to wager an umpire's correct call percentage is higher than the OBP of the guys so quick to call them out.

 

[JabNblue]

I play in a lower D USSSA league and this year I've been keeping track of our teams batting stats:

http://forums.softballfans.com/threads/spreadsheet-for-batting-stats.1443995/

To do that accurately, I snap a GoPro behind the fence at home plate and re-watch/fill in the spreadsheet later. Only takes a few minutes since I can skip all the defense.

A few umps have said it's against the rules to record the games but have been fine with me doing it...until last week. The ump saw the camera and said no more.

I just read through the USSSA rules and there's only a single mention of audio or video devices in section 2-14. It basically said no audio or video devices on the field of play. Our local city league rules has no mention of audio/video devices at all.

Since my camera is behind the fence and couldn't in any way interfere with the game, how is this a problem?

With today's technology you can almost bet the arm that YOU HAVE BEEN RECORDED! Now we don't allow cameras of any sort on the playing field or in the dugout. I was sent a picture of a team on defense that came off of Facebook and I happen to be standing in about the middle of the shot. What I did notice and try to maintain my position in a one man system was that I did not have a clear view of batter runner. If something would have came to need a judgement I clearly would not a good view, angle nor distance. Good to see ourselves from a unspecified mode of scrutiny.

 

[lukeamdman]

So my final question is can an ump/league director/etc. stop a fan/spectator from recording a game (not streaming) for personal use? If not I'll just put the GoPro on a tripod near the bleachers and not worry about it.

 

[NCASAUmp]

You'd have to ask a lawyer within your state that question. States vary on their laws when it comes to recording things, particular if there's audio. Also, it may depend on whether or not the field you're playing on is publicly or privately owned. If it's privately owned, the owners can tell you to pack it up and leave for just about any reason.

 

[Country469]

and whether or not you are broadcasting/streaming for others to vue, thats where it gets much trickier as no association that I know of allows its game to be broadcasted without written permission./

 

[jbo911]

and whether or not you are broadcasting/streaming for others to vue, thats where it gets much trickier as no association that I know of allows its game to be broadcasted without written permission./

I'm not saying that's wrong, but holy ****. This isn't mlb. Nobody's paying to see utrip stream my team. They need to get over that **** below conference level.

 

[Country469]

well yeah they'd have to
a. catch you doing it
b. go to court over it
c. win in court

 

[JP21]

So my final question is can an ump/league director/etc. stop a fan/spectator from recording a game (not streaming) for personal use?

No, your best argument would be " You are on public property and have no expectation of privacy" even if it is a sanctioned event by USSSA asking for royalties (which is Fing lame). Obviously, this only applies to public diamonds. Private parks you would have to abide by house rules.

 

[NCASAUmp]

No, your best argument would be " You are on public property and have no expectation of privacy" even if it is a sanctioned event by USSSA asking for royalties (which is Fing lame). Obviously, this only applies to public diamonds. Private parks you would have to abide by house rules.

Again, this may vary by the state you're in.

Without taking this conversation down a massive rabbit hole, keep in mind that even if you are doing everything legally, it doesn't mean the officers responding to the call of someone recording a game will know the proper nuances of the law.

And you guys get on our cases when we make a mistake out on the field? We're not carrying guns when we screw up!

 

[irishmafia]

So my final question is can an ump/league director/etc. stop a fan/spectator from recording a game (not streaming) for personal use? If not I'll just put the GoPro on a tripod near the bleachers and not worry about it.

Yes they can. Forget all the posts talking about lawyers, courts, etc. a TD can run their tournament as they see fit. You do not have a legal right to demand to play under you conditions. And forget the "it's a public park" argument since in all situations with which I am familiar, the tournament is operating under a permit which often includes a fee which means they've basically leased those fields and the immediate areas surrounding the field.

 

[lukeamdman]

Yes they can. Forget all the posts talking about lawyers, courts, etc. a TD can run their tournament as they see fit. You do not have a legal right to demand to play under you conditions. And forget the "it's a public park" argument since in all situations with which I am familiar, the tournament is operating under a permit which often includes a fee which means they've basically leased those fields and the immediate areas surrounding the field.

I only keep batting stats for regular league nights which are in public fields.

For tournaments we're always scrambling just to have enough players so there's no point of keeping track since it's not our regular guys.

 

[SevenBizzos]

I heard (you know, hearsay and all) that people were snapping pics and videos of illegal players at GSL Worlds and the directors were more miffed about the electronics use than the cheating. That isn't surprising, honestly.

 

[JabNblue]

So my final question is can an ump/league director/etc. stop a fan/spectator from recording a game (not streaming) for personal use? If not I'll just put the GoPro on a tripod near the bleachers and not worry about it.

If it's on the actual field any umpire should put an immediate stop to it as this is a safety concern then. We don't allow cell phones on the field with people taking selfies , etc. Let alone an actual video recording device.

 

[lukeamdman]

If it's on the actual field any umpire should put an immediate stop to it as this is a safety concern then. We don't allow cell phones on the field with people taking selfies , etc. Let alone an actual video recording device.

Yes of course. On the field would be a blatant violation of the USSSA rules as I pointed out in the first post.

As I've mentioned several times, and also in my quote that you replied to, the camera is behind the fence or on a tripod near the bleachers.