What is with the USSSA strike zone??

[dttruax]

I have a pitch scenario I would like to get your opinion on. It is one that I will never get a call on and I doubt 90% of you ever do. Say you release a ball from 6" off the ground and the ball goes 5' high but the apex of the arc is 5'-10' from the batter thus crossing the batter at the numbers and would land a good 5'-10' behind the plate. By definition of the pitching rule the only thing that can make this not a strike is excessive speed. I am guessing that is why this is never called a strike.

Speaking of excessive speed - did you know that after 1 warning to slow your pitch down on the second warning you have to be removed from the mound. Not many know this.

Unless you're playing mat ball, where the ball lands behind the plate has no bearing on whether it's a strike or not.... or I should say SHOULD have no bearing. Too many lazy umps out there who play "invisible mat ball" and stare at the ground behind the plate where the ball landed for a second or 2 to figure out if it was a strike or not .

 

[ser7643]

The biggest problem I see is that umpires are too lazy or don't feel like arguing with teams so they give the same height (from the ground) to both teams even if one pitcher is on a knee pitching and releasing from 1' from the ground and the other is releasing from his waist standing up. I think a big part of the problem is that players do not know the rule and if I throw a pitch releasing it from as close to the ground as possible and it goes 3'6" and their pitcher throws standing up from the waist an his ball goes 4' he the team will complain all day if they don't get that call and I do. I think instead of educating the players the umpire finds it easier to find a happy medium. He may give me a little flatter from the knee but not 2'.

I have a pitch scenario I would like to get your opinion on. It is one that I will never get a call on and I doubt 90% of you ever do. Say you release a ball from 6" off the ground and the ball goes 5' high but the apex of the arc is 5'-10' from the batter thus crossing the batter at the numbers and would land a good 5'-10' behind the plate. By definition of the pitching rule the only thing that can make this not a strike is excessive speed. I am guessing that is why this is never called a strike.

Speaking of excessive speed - did you know that after 1 warning to slow your pitch down on the second warning you have to be removed from the mound. Not many know this.

Most know this rule around here...no umpire has EVER said anything though after giving a warning.

Let's face it, most ump's don't make enough to deal with all the whinning so they usually give in to keep players quite.

 

[NE Hitman]

I quoted the rule for you above and it CLEARLY states the arc must be 3 feet AFTER LEAVING THE PITCHERS HAND...AKA RELEASE. It's only undefined to meet your purpose but its clear what it states.

The "AKA RELEASE" is your interpretation of the rule. The actual rule as you quote it, says 'the arc must be 3 feet after leaving the pitchers hand' but does not specify from what. 'After' is not the same word or meaning as 'from'.

 

[spos21ram]

The "AKA RELEASE" is your interpretation of the rule. The actual rule as you quote it, says 'the arc must be 3 feet after leaving the pitchers hand' but does not specify from what. 'After' is not the same word or meaning as 'from'.

I understand this, but like I said, if you ask any usssa umpire, they will tell you it's 3 from release. Even this past weekend at the States, as I stated in my op, fast balls no more than 3 feet high were crossing past shoe tops and ankles. I would play dumb and say "what's the usssa arc rule anyway?" Their reply... "3 from release."

The umpires know the book rule, they just don't follow it.

 

[ser7643]

The "AKA RELEASE" is your interpretation of the rule. The actual rule as you quote it, says 'the arc must be 3 feet after leaving the pitchers hand' but does not specify from what. 'After' is not the same word or meaning as 'from'.

True "after" is not the same as "from" but seriously why mention "after leaving the pitchers hand" if that is not what is meant. If you reword the sentence, not adding any words, you get "after leaving the pitchers hand the arc must be 3 feet". I think any reasonable person would think the are must be 3 feet from the release point which is...the pitchers hand.

No where in the rule does it mention the ground, yet people try and say its from the ground. Commons sense prevails here in my opinion.

 

[crdawg2521]

3ft high fastball is completely different from a ball needing to arc 3 ft and the rule is very clear to me.

Now I'm a pitcher so I'll throw anything the ump will allow me to throw and I go with all game long. I always push the limits with the first few batters to establish the zone and work from there.

If he will let me throw a 3 ft high fastball I will...If he call it flat/illegal then I need to put that arch in it.

 

[blakcherry329]

What really needs to be defined is where it crosses the batter. I have too many pitches called deep because of where it lands. It's like ASA-light, depending on the Ump.

I'm coming from MODIFIED so I throw a little faster than most pitchers, anyway. But I will throw a pitch across the upper midsection and it will get called deep because the catcher catches it. Or if a batter is up in the box, I have to drop it right behind the plate(imaginary mat) to get a strike call.

 

[ser7643]

What really needs to be defined is where it crosses the batter. I have too many pitches called deep because of where it lands. It's like ASA-light, depending on the Ump.

I'm coming from MODIFIED so I throw a little faster than most pitchers, anyway. But I will throw a pitch across the upper midsection and it will get called deep because the catcher catches it. Or if a batter is up in the box, I have to drop it right behind the plate(imaginary mat) to get a strike call.

It is defined.
Rule 7. Sec.3 A. 1. The strike zone is only the part, or any part of the area, over home plate that is lower than the top of the batter's highest shoulder, or hgher than the bottom of his FRONT KNEE.

Where the ball lands behind the plate has NOTHING to do with whether a pitch is a strike or ball. If the following happens a pitch should be called a strike:
1. the pitcher fairly delivers the ball
2. the pitch has a 3ft arc from release and is not more than 10ft from the ground
3. Crosses the area over home plate while crossing the batter between his highest shoulder and FRONT KNEE as if he were standing at home plate (in case he is back or front of the plate)

I'm sure the description can be more detailed but I think we get the idea.

 

[RLH4L]

How is this rule not clear to everyone? 3 feet from release..... So if you release the ball 1 foot from the ground then it has to reach at least 4 feet. If you release 4 feet high then 7. But never higher than 10 from the ground. It can hardly be broken down into simpler terms.

 

[KannonsDad]

I've never understood an umpire calling a deep pitch. If my pitch meets all the criteria of a legal pitch, it doesn't matter where it lands.

 

[blakcherry329]

It is defined.
Rule 7. Sec.3 A. 1. The strike zone is only the part, or any part of the area, over home plate that is lower than the top of the batter's highest shoulder, or hgher than the bottom of his FRONT KNEE.

Where the ball lands behind the plate has NOTHING to do with whether a pitch is a strike or ball. If the following happens a pitch should be called a strike:
1. the pitcher fairly delivers the ball
2. the pitch has a 3ft arc from release and is not more than 10ft from the ground
3. Crosses the area over home plate while crossing the batter between his highest shoulder and FRONT KNEE as if he were standing at home plate (in case he is back or front of the plate)

I'm sure the description can be more detailed but I think we get the idea.

I've never understood an umpire calling a deep pitch. If my pitch meets all the criteria of a legal pitch, it doesn't matter where it lands.

Exactly, but Umps still say deep when calling a ball. Even if it crosses the batter correctly.:wtf2:

 

[KannonsDad]

Exactly, but Umps still say deep when calling a ball. Even if it crosses the batter correctly.:wtf2:

In our area, especially for league, I really think they should use a strike mat and put the umpire out in the infield. It's all they look for, a ball that lands just behind the plate