When did the 2004 ASA stamp come out?

K

kweiss

Addicted to Softballfans
Obviously around 2004, but was that before or after they banned the grandfathered bats?

I wasn't playing softball when it all happened, but I'm trying to get an accurate timeline for how it all went down. From what I've seen:

-OG Freak, Synergy, etc. came out in 2003.
-2004 there was a new stamp for all bats coming off the line.
-November 2006 ASA announced the ultimatum on grandfathered bats.
-January 2008 grandfathered bats were all banned.

Am I completely wrong? Anyone have more details?
 
mjross81

mjross81

Surrounded by estrogen
kweiss said:
Obviously around 2004, but was that before or after they banned the grandfathered bats?

I wasn't playing softball when it all happened, but I'm trying to get an accurate timeline for how it all went down. From what I've seen:

-OG Freak, Synergy, etc. came out in 2003.
-2004 there was a new stamp for all bats coming off the line.
-November 2006 ASA announced the ultimatum on grandfathered bats.
-January 2008 grandfathered bats were all banned.

Am I completely wrong? Anyone have more details?
Click to expand...

yes, you are wrong.
 
AdamHad'em

AdamHad'em

King of the whooo?
kweiss said:
Obviously around 2004, but was that before or after they banned the grandfathered bats?
Click to expand...

The so-called "Grandfathered bats" were grandfathred at the same time the ASA 2004 stamp began to be used. The "Grandfathered bats" were not banned until 2008.
 
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NCASAUmp

NCASAUmp

Un-Retired
kweiss said:
Obviously around 2004, but was that before or after they banned the grandfathered bats?

I wasn't playing softball when it all happened, but I'm trying to get an accurate timeline for how it all went down. From what I've seen:

-OG Freak, Synergy, etc. came out in 2003.
-2004 there was a new stamp for all bats coming off the line.
-November 2006 ASA announced the ultimatum on grandfathered bats.
-January 2008 grandfathered bats were all banned.

Am I completely wrong? Anyone have more details?
Click to expand...

That's pretty much it. Can't speak to when the Synergy or Freak were released, but the rest is pretty accurate.
 
warpath

warpath

BUTT****ING THE WORLD
Joker0091 said:
its not grandfathered is it? if its not legal it can't be grandfathered. anything that is grandfathered is still legal, bats, property, etc.
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I would think that anything that is pre 09 standered but still legal is grandfathered.
 
Joker

Joker

Well-Known Member
warpath said:
I would think that anything that is pre 09 standered but still legal is grandfathered.
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yes thats the definition of grandfathered. something that is allowed to remain legal even though the regulations have changed. the og freak and syn2 were temporarily grandfathered. as soon as they were deemed illegal they ceased to be grandfathered
 
warpath

warpath

BUTT****ING THE WORLD
Joker0091 said:
yes thats the definition of grandfathered. something that is allowed to remain legal even though the regulations have changed. the og freak and syn2 were temporarily grandfathered. as soon as they were deemed illegal they ceased to be grandfathered
Click to expand...

That is correct and now there is a new group of grandfathered bats.
 
Gamble

Gamble

Addicted to Softballfans
warpath said:
That is correct and now there is a new group of grandfathered bats.
Click to expand...

The difference being that the OG Freak and Synergy 2 never actually met the ASA standards, but were allowed in on a technicality, whereas the pre-ABI bats did meet the standard at the time of testing.
 
jbo911

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
I don't remember the Freaks and Synergy2 coming out in 03. If they did it was very late in 03, but they couldn't be manufactured with the 04 stamp as they were only being allowed in on a grandfathered basis. If I remember correctly they had to cease production June or July 30th of 04.
 
Joker

Joker

Well-Known Member
Gamble said:
The difference being that the OG Freak and Synergy 2 never actually met the ASA standards, but were allowed in on a technicality, whereas the pre-ABI bats did meet the standard at the time of testing.
Click to expand...

they met the 2000 standards, but that test was flawed
 
warpath

warpath

BUTT****ING THE WORLD
Gamble said:
The difference being that the OG Freak and Synergy 2 never actually met the ASA standards, but were allowed in on a technicality, whereas the pre-ABI bats did meet the standard at the time of testing.
Click to expand...

Yes they did.
 
Gamble

Gamble

Addicted to Softballfans
Joker0091 said:
they met the 2000 standards, but that test was flawed
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My understanding is that the standard was 98mph, but there was a +/- 2mph margin of error allowed, which Miken and Easton graciously took full advantage of and intentionally produced 100mph bats.

I'd say whether or not they truly 'met' the standards was a case of semantics. I was still playing baseball at that time, and didn't really give a damn about softball, so this is all after the fact for me.
 
jbo911

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
Gamble said:
My understanding is that the standard was 98mph, but there was a +/- 2mph margin of error allowed, which Miken and Easton graciously took full advantage of and intentionally produced 100mph bats.

I'd say whether or not they truly 'met' the standards was a case of semantics. I was still playing baseball at that time, and didn't really give a damn about softball, so this is all after the fact for me.
Click to expand...

They passed the 2000 test, there was a +/- 2mph margin of error in the test and Worth sued because the PST didn't pass the 2004 test. All of the tests so far have been flawed, but the 2004 test is what was flawed that allowed the Freak, Syn2, PST Max to be legal till 08.
 
Joker

Joker

Well-Known Member
Gamble said:
My understanding is that the standard was 98mph, but there was a +/- 2mph margin of error allowed, which Miken and Easton graciously took full advantage of and intentionally produced 100mph bats.

I'd say whether or not they truly 'met' the standards was a case of semantics. I was still playing baseball at that time, and didn't really give a damn about softball, so this is all after the fact for me.
Click to expand...

from what i've read the test had the wrong mph of the pitch and the wrong mph of the typical bat speed. i've also heard that the 2000 test didn't specify where on the barrel the ball had to impact. i mean the ultra 2 passed the 2000 test
 
Gamble

Gamble

Addicted to Softballfans
Joker0091 said:
i've also heard that the 2000 test didn't specify where on the barrel the ball had to impact. i mean the ultra 2 passed the 2000 test
Click to expand...

Is that how the Lady Virus passed the 2004 test?


This is an enlightening thread.
 
Joker

Joker

Well-Known Member
jbo911 said:
They passed the 2000 test, there was a +/- 2mph margin of error in the test and Worth sued because the PST didn't pass the 2004 test. All of the tests so far have been flawed, but the 2004 test is what was flawed that allowed the Freak, Syn2, PST Max to be legal till 08.
Click to expand...

the way i've always heard it is the freak and syn2 never passed the 2004 test, but they were allowed to remain legal under a temporary grandfathering. it was known they would be banned, ASA just put it off for awhile
 
jbo911

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joker0091 said:
trumpball's post here is a good one

http://forums.softballfans.com/showthread.php?t=545133
Click to expand...

My posts are all good ones. His mention of multi-point impact testing is what you were talking about earlier. Before that they just tested the COP or sweetspot. COP is center of percussion.

The stated reason I kept hearing back in the day for how the Ultra and U2 passed the ASA test is because they just tested the sweetspot and not the whole barrel. The assumption was that after break in they got hotter elsewhere on the barrel. That's why the U2 wasn't legal in UTrip. They bpfed the whole barrel.
 
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