Maine
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shoo2ers
Crafty Veteran
its been the same in Maine for years, hasn't gotten worse or better. The numbers have stayed roughly the same for the past 5 years. I don't see any change for this coming season.
We will come back to this in May.
Take E states for example.. 16 teams in 2009, 16 teams in 2010, 7 teams in 2011, 13 teams in 2012 and 9 in 2013. Besides one year with a very small turnout, the numbers have been slowly going down. Not sure how it "hasn't gotten worse or better"? You can look at any tournament since 2009 and you'll see the same downward slope. Yes there are a lot of factors, my main point is it's sad and I hope this doesn't get worse. The less teams in a tournament the less interest there will be.
shoo2ers
Crafty Veteran
because I have the rec program now so its split up a little bit. The first few years was combinded. The overall total teams that play every year has stayed steady. You cant look at 1 tournament, you have too look at the overall numbers in the state. Westbrook teams are now playing and have the league now. Teams are playing, they may not play all at the same time but they are playing. It really hasn't gotten any worse.
#52
Munson
Not sure what you mean by "look" but either way Grids will resemble this remark with new threads and a new addition or two.
Also, not sure how one could say softball isn't shrinking especially if you look back 10 years or so.
That was an example of what use to be a big tournament slowly dying down, proofs there Heath I just typed out the numbers. And if your defense is the rec program growing, that's just sad and helps me prove my point.
#52
Munson
Honestly I think E and Crocker are both right. In general we have about the same amount of teams playing...kind of.... but the difference is all the teams playing are at the low levels and there are no high level teams any more. The days of having 5-6 B, 10-12C, and a gazzillion D/E teams playing ASA are far behind us. Now with UTrip having a presence in Maine I'd say the interest there is up from 10 years ago but it has plateaued and split into two division E and Rec. There is no D program and I don’t see one happening unless more teams and more talent start playing ball.
#52
Munson
The more I think of it the more I side with the "its shrinking" side of this debate. One need only look at how many teams play in the lewiston and auburn leagues. When I started, there were 12-14 teams in the upper division and about the same in the lower division. Now we have 4 teams between Auburn and Lewiston playing upper and about 10 teams playing lower. Auburn has about the same amount of teams spread through 3 divisions now but how many of those people play on multiple teams in multiple divisions
Heaths doing a great job promoting and getting these tournaments running, no denying that. It's just sad, like Cusson said, that people can't take their lumps to get better. Like Huzz has said a million times I care about this extracurricular activity and don't want to see it slowly go away.
huzzdog
retired
i feel sad for anybody who likes softball not having experienced it the way i got to. bangor used to host a labor day tournament with 100 teams and people would drive from ct to play. hundreds of fans watching, unlimited homers, a great atmosphere. the world has changed and this game is suffering for it. softball used to be a big deal. it's dying.. anybody who says it's not is in denial.
When most of the guys over the age of 30 started to play we only had ASA, USSSA did not really exist. We played really only in Maine. The Memorial day tourney in Brunswick was DEEP back in the day. The Charlie Mull tourney was a good Maine based tourney in Brunswick. The Brunswick league had some of the best teams around as did L/A and Bangor. Then the rec killed it because they really only wanted KIDS to play on those fields (mostly soccer).
Very few companies want to sponsor adult teams any long as well, times are tough. These factors all play into it.
You have good, growing, teams that don't stay together because there is really only a couple of teams that can and will win. I agree you do not get better if you don't stay together but teams will not stay together if you have 1-2 stacked teams and the other 7-8 teams really can not and will not win. These better 1-2 teams are classified in the same division as the "up and coming" teams. The upper teams don't want to be moved up and the lower teams can not spend $200-300 every weekend to enter and go 0-2 or at best 1-2. It is hard to get better and get experience when you get in few games each time you show. The travel is too expensive to lose like that. I am a die hard and have an ability to pay for my habit and a family/wife that understands my addiction. Younger kids, the future of the sport, do not have the money to travel, pay the way and then lose often. The guys that can afford it will not or should not be "the first national bank of ......" to pay for everyone that doesn't have it or doesn't WANT TO MAKE the money it cost to play (way too many guys that want hand outs).
Worst you have teams that do well for years and will not move up because they ONLY want to win. It is very hypocritical of some to say get better and you can compete when you get better, then turn around and allow the upper teams to be left down because they want to place in the top 5 in worlds. So they stay in a lower division to afford them the chance to do so. Giving them a chance to win..... why don't you move up and get better? You can not have it both ways. Let me make this clear, I DONT CARE WHO I/WE PLAY we should be able to compete with those teams if we play to our potential. Some teams do not even have a fighting chance most of the time. I know "on any given day".... most are not going to accept that.
I understand also that other states are crooked and allow this to happen, but you can not do it just because others are and expect the growth of the sport. In Maine you are too small and have far less teams to do this. The sport will die. Good players will play out of state and young kids will just stop playing. League maybe (its cheaper), not tournaments.
Very few companies want to sponsor adult teams any long as well, times are tough. These factors all play into it.
You have good, growing, teams that don't stay together because there is really only a couple of teams that can and will win. I agree you do not get better if you don't stay together but teams will not stay together if you have 1-2 stacked teams and the other 7-8 teams really can not and will not win. These better 1-2 teams are classified in the same division as the "up and coming" teams. The upper teams don't want to be moved up and the lower teams can not spend $200-300 every weekend to enter and go 0-2 or at best 1-2. It is hard to get better and get experience when you get in few games each time you show. The travel is too expensive to lose like that. I am a die hard and have an ability to pay for my habit and a family/wife that understands my addiction. Younger kids, the future of the sport, do not have the money to travel, pay the way and then lose often. The guys that can afford it will not or should not be "the first national bank of ......" to pay for everyone that doesn't have it or doesn't WANT TO MAKE the money it cost to play (way too many guys that want hand outs).
Worst you have teams that do well for years and will not move up because they ONLY want to win. It is very hypocritical of some to say get better and you can compete when you get better, then turn around and allow the upper teams to be left down because they want to place in the top 5 in worlds. So they stay in a lower division to afford them the chance to do so. Giving them a chance to win..... why don't you move up and get better? You can not have it both ways. Let me make this clear, I DONT CARE WHO I/WE PLAY we should be able to compete with those teams if we play to our potential. Some teams do not even have a fighting chance most of the time. I know "on any given day".... most are not going to accept that.
I understand also that other states are crooked and allow this to happen, but you can not do it just because others are and expect the growth of the sport. In Maine you are too small and have far less teams to do this. The sport will die. Good players will play out of state and young kids will just stop playing. League maybe (its cheaper), not tournaments.
Before North American split up a few months ago we were playing up and trying to get better. We were the only team traveling outside of the state consistently every single weekend to play better competition. Other teams didn't want to or didn't have enough guys that wanted to travel outside of the state. Hell, we even kicked around the idea of playing C this upcoming season when we thought we had a better sponsor. There are some teams out there still trying to get better. There are also other teams that don't have the luxury or desire to travel outside of the state to play. And they also just happened to be talented so they will win most of the tournaments in the state. League is for understanding and learning the game.
I get that it costs money, people don't want to play to get pounded and times are tough.. It all goes back to the dying out of softball.
No I agree with most of what you said, it's been a combination of things leading to this. I just think everyone was classed correctly last year and moving people up so more people are satisfied with paying $20 for a tournament and getting 4 games as opposed to 3 isn't really the way to do it.. There's probably no right answer, except eliminating classes altogether.
We will see what happens in this off season. I am ok with us seeing things differently. That is ok. I have a ton of respect for you, you know that I have told you that personally before . It's what makes the world go round. We will see what happens when you add 3-4 players from a legit D team. All talented D players. That ARE D players. Hmmmm. Again not that it matters to me I love playing those guys. I want to play them. Doesn't make it right.
They are playing D this year.. Miles Levi and Teves wouldn't play unless they were a D team.
And yes, there's really no right answer just a bunch of opinions.. In the end only a few things will actually change the current state and I don't see that happening, ever.
isthisshaved19
Addicted to Softballfans
no disrespect meant here, but what is the difference between an E and a D player? What skill does the D player bring to the field that the E does not?
I think you just described yourself to a T
isthisshaved19
Addicted to Softballfans
God I love voice control
Here is my two cents on this issue. Increase the price of Rec tourneys so it hurts the sandbag teams wallets a little more, they will move up to pay less. THis in turn brings more players and better talent to the bigger tourneys. There will always be the guys who complain about how it is not fair but usually those are the same guys who buy shavers and go play rec coed as well so I don't feel bad. If teams want to stay down than crocker can make more profit on his tourneys and that will end the argument about money being the major issue cause they will be paying more to stay down. Just my thoughts.
huzzdog
retired
there are too many other choices for hobby at this point. there is no saving the game.. or at least the game as we used to know it. kids are playing travel sports on 6 teams by 10 years old. when i was a kid my mom packed up 4 of us and we went to every tournament as a family. that doesn't happen anymore... sponsors used to get a tax deduction.... that has changed.
technology in bats has made everybody a good hitter... and made it scary at times to play infield.. let alone pitch. making the equipment so much better then telling guys you can't hit it over the fence has contributed to ruining the game.
softball had it's hey day.. it's over. those of us who love it will find a way to keep playing until we can't... but make no mistake.. the best days are long gone.
technology in bats has made everybody a good hitter... and made it scary at times to play infield.. let alone pitch. making the equipment so much better then telling guys you can't hit it over the fence has contributed to ruining the game.
softball had it's hey day.. it's over. those of us who love it will find a way to keep playing until we can't... but make no mistake.. the best days are long gone.
shoo2ers
Crafty Veteran
haha profit? what the hell is that? I think I make about 5 bucks an hours when its all said and done. You want the job? all yours, lol..
There actually are some people involved in USSSA that aren't money hungry and do it for softball. Some people may have different opinions but usually its because your not educated on the costs and time involved. All the teams are playing at the level where they belong. Pretty simple.
Sensitive a little? I was just pointing out the theoretical benefits of my suggestion. I clearly know you don't make tons of money doing softball tourneys, I am not that ignorant and am well educated on cost btw. I would just like to know what is USSSA strategy on this cause it seems to be a continuing issue year in and out?