ASA ASA Ball thrown away

[Longball 28]

Playing ASA, man on first and a line shot to the 2nd baseman, catches it and tries to double up the runner on 1st who was running on the play. Throw it away and it goes out of play.

Argument 1 is he already had 1st base established and gets 2nd and 3rd.
Argument 2 is in order to get 3rd base he has to beat the ball back to 1st to reestablish the bag so he would only get 2nd base.

And go

 

[TEX1959]

argument 1 is correct
But, he still has to retag 1st or is subject to being called out on appeal
See Rule 8.5.G and RS 38

 

[sjury]

ASA runner gets 2 bases from last base touched, so 3rd base.

USSSA runner gets 2 bases, but bases requiring retouch are included in the award, so runner gets 2nd.

 

[Longball 28]

ASA runner gets 2 bases from last base touched, so 3rd base.

USSSA runner gets 2 bases, but bases requiring retouch are included in the award, so runner gets 2nd.

but since he has to go back and tag up because it was a line out does it still hold true because he hasn't really established that base yet?

 

[sjury]

Nope not in ASA, two bases from the runners position on the throw.

 

[MaverickAH]

but since he has to go back and tag up because it was a line out does it still hold true because he hasn't really established that base yet?

Not in ASA........
In ASA, the rule is from the last base possessed. Because the runner had already possessed 1B, the 2-base award is 2B & 3B. Now this doesn't negate the fact that he still has to re-tag 1B before taking his award. If he doesn't, he can still be put out on appeal. In ASA, you are considered to have possessed a base once you've passed it.


The USSSA take the approach you describe. Since the tag up wasn't legal, you no longer possess that base & their award includes the re-tag plus an addition base (2B, in this case). Of note: Because their award includes the re-tag, there is no possibility of an appeal on the award when given.

 

[eddieq]

Deja vu all over again

 

[NCASAUmp]

I'd stay clear of using the term "possession." That brings up whole arguments, invalid as they may be, about whether a runner who failed to touch a base ever truly "possessed it."

The only thing that matters is the runner's position at the time of the throw. Not base possession, not the direction they're running in, but where they were standing at the time of the throw.

 

[SevenBizzos]

This has never come up before.

 

[RDD15]

Is that still rule supplement 36? Used to be Point of Emphasis 37 years ago. 2 bases forward from where the runner was at the release of the throw.

 

[beernbombs]

Is that still rule supplement 36? Used to be Point of Emphasis 37 years ago. 2 bases forward from where the runner was at the release of the throw.

It's RS #38.

 

[JackoDaddy5]

NC, just because you're here, I have a quick question regarding the 're-touching' of bases.

Runner on first, 1 out. Batter hits a ball deep, the runner takes off thinking it has clearly burned the right fielder. Right field jumps ups and robs it. R1 is apparently so fast around the bases, but doesn't think he can make it back to first before being doubled up, so he continues to round 3rd and head toward their first base dugout. The right fielder throws the ball over the first basemans head, (throw happens while runner is between 2nd and 3rd) and it goes out of play.

Reading the rule, it says nothing about re-touching the bases in reverse order.

The R1, can actually just round himself all the way back toward first base instead of entering the 1st base dugout, and begin running from 1st, to 2nd, to 3rd, then to home....correct?

 

[BretMan]

NC is off calling a national tournament, so might not see this until later. :headbang:

You do need to touch the bases in reverse order when going back to tag up. But if you don't, then you touch them again when going in the forward direction, that last touch corrects the misses when going backwards.

This is the "last time by" concept. If you touch a base on your "last time by" it corrects any misses from your other times by.

 

[JackoDaddy5]

I apologize for my ignorance...but..huh? haha

I know what you mean in regards to tagging up being passed 2nd base, and re-touching it on the way back to first, then again on the way to 3rd.

But, that 'last time by' concept... Does that mean in regards to the scenario posted, the 'last time by' concept would allow the runner to just round the bases again, and that would make up for missing them?

I made up a stupid scenario, one time in the history of earth type of thing, and now I confused the hell out of myself.

 

[BretMan]

Yep, that's what it means!

 

[JackoDaddy5]

So, if during a dead ball scenario, you are somehow confused at how you should re-touch the bases, you could actually just trot over to first base, and start running from there to the base that the umpire awards you...

I think most of us here would be able to figure the correct base order out. I just mean, if they were to chose to do so, that would correct any base running mistakes they've made up until the base they were awarded.

Yeah?

 

[TEX1959]

On this overthrow,out of play subject, i am going to put situation that happened with us last week. This is ASA.
Runners on 1st and 3rd with 1 out.
Fly ball to left field, runner on 3rd stays with bag till catch and goes home.
Runner on 1st, thinking there are 2 outs is off on contact, and is past 2nd and headed to 3rd when the catch is made.
Left fielder makes the catch and slings it toward 3rd and the ball sails out of play over the 3rd base dugout.
What base is the runner from 1st awarded?

 

[eddieq]

On this overthrow,out of play subject, i am going to put situation that happened with us last week. This is ASA.
Runners on 1st and 3rd with 1 out.
Fly ball to left field, runner on 3rd stays with bag till catch and goes home.
Runner on 1st, thinking there are 2 outs is off on contact, and is past 2nd and headed to 3rd when the catch is made.
Left fielder makes the catch and slings it toward 3rd and the ball sails out of play over the 3rd base dugout.
What base is the runner from 1st awarded?

Two bases from where they were when the ball was released and they have to retouch any base left too soon. So both runners go home but are subject to appeal if they don't retouch bases missed or left early.