Bad news

[ShortYellowBus]

This is a PSA, more than anything. Hopefully it helps people who are about to buy a bat and think they’re getting a good deal.

Bad news for the bat flipping community.

Popular Suncoast USSSA bats have been banned.



These all consistently tested below the 240 threshold NIW.

 

[ShortYellowBus]

 

[EAJuggalo]

Not banned, at least not yet, suspended. And compression was not why there were suspended. Bats I've seen fail in the wrapper are not on this list.
Last summer USSSA pulled samples to be retested through the NTS testing that bats must pass in order to be approved and get a stamp. Three companies were found to have failed at least some of that testing. I was told this at C worlds. The rest of this is my own speculation from putting together what I have been told in the past and the statements being put out now. I believe they were giving the companies time for more testing to be done to see if this was isolated QC failure or if it was systemic. With the Conference season starting tomorrow and no resolution, I believe the decision was made to suspend all of these models pending the results of the investigation. Juno put out a statement, silence from Suncoast. Juno only had one subvariant that failed with a easily determined commonality. Suncoast looks like it's the whole product line.
My own purely reckless speculation, Ruckus' will be banned and Juno will have to change their UTH-43 handle. It was a joke at Worlds that everybody knew the Ruckus' shouldn't have been legal.
Let's see how many here will join in on the bashing of USSSA I'm seeing on Facebook, but not level any anger at the companies that knew, or should have known that their product was out of spec and took your money anyway.

 

[Committed]

First Onyx with the USA issues and now this. Softball is already dying and the bat manufacturers are trying to empty pockets while pulling the plug.

 

[ImminentDanger]

This sounds like the results of trying too hard to make the bats 'Hot Out Of The Wrapper' by making the manufacturing specs too close to the minimum rating. Then the actual manufacturing variances did not produce bats that would actually pass.

However, it might have been that they actually submitted bats they knew would pass even though they knew the running manufactured bats would not. Cheating today has become so prevalent, that no one expects to be caught, or punished if they are caught. It certainly is the exception rather than the rule.

Just like advertising is almost always Legalized Lying. They tell you facts that make you believe the (subliminal) LIE without actually stating the LIE in so many words. They manipulate you to perceive unrealistic expectations that you will accept.

%%%

 

[ninerempire25]

Believe it's temporary

 

[EAJuggalo]

This sounds like the results of trying too hard to make the bats 'Hot Out Of The Wrapper' by making the manufacturing specs too close to the minimum rating. Then the actual manufacturing variances did not produce bats that would actually pass.

However, it might have been that they actually submitted bats they knew would pass even though they knew the running manufactured bats would not. Cheating today has become so prevalent, that no one expects to be caught, or punished if they are caught. It certainly is the exception rather than the rule.

Just like advertising is almost always Legalized Lying. They tell you facts that make you believe the (subliminal) LIE without actually stating the LIE in so many words. They manipulate you to perceive unrealistic expectations that you will accept.

%%%

I've seen statements attributed to Rip from Juno stating they never submitted a model for testing with the affected handle. They believed that because the barrel had passed they could put whatever handle on it they wanted. May even be true since only one handle was included.

It's labelled as temporary in case they find out that the ones that got tested in October were isolated incidents and it wasn't the whole run that was out of spec.

 

[jbo911]

I've seen statements attributed to Rip from Juno stating they never submitted a model for testing with the affected handle. They believed that because the barrel had passed they could put whatever handle on it they wanted. May even be true since only one handle was included.

It's labelled as temporary in case they find out that the ones that got tested in October were isolated incidents and it wasn't the whole run that was out of spec.

Or were they actually out of spec? They may be temporarily banned for exactly that reason. Because they weren't tested at all.

I still blame utrip at least some. They haven't been testing bats at tournaments, they have to know that most of these bats are failing, and they don't actually care. They approved bats that came out of the wrapper ten points above failing.

They never admit their own mistakes, and we're the ones paying the price. I don't own a Suncoast, but I almost bought one since they were legal through almost two years and most of March with the rumors.

The players not skirting the regulations are at a huge disadvantage. Utrip sets all the rules, all the standards, all the testing, and then turn a blind eye. They are not innocent in this.

 

[ilyk2win]

Funny how they claim "player safety" when it benefits them, but also turn a blind eye on it when it also benefits them. Yet we keep drinking the Kool Aid.

 

[EAJuggalo]

Or were they actually out of spec? They may be temporarily banned for exactly that reason. Because they weren't tested at all.

I still blame utrip at least some. They haven't been testing bats at tournaments, they have to know that most of these bats are failing, and they don't actually care. They approved bats that came out of the wrapper ten points above failing.

They never admit their own mistakes, and we're the ones paying the price. I don't own a Suncoast, but I almost bought one since they were legal through almost two years and most of March with the rumors.

The players not skirting the regulations are at a huge disadvantage. Utrip sets all the rules, all the standards, all the testing, and then turn a blind eye. They are not innocent in this.

This has nothing to do with compression, you can have a bat that passes compression that fails the NTS testing that determines BPF. I sat next to Stro and Rip in Chicago when they tested 5 NIW Junos that 3 failed. That model isn't on the list. Bats from all manufacturers were taken in October at the Major and subjected to NTS testing. I was told that a number of manufacturers failed those tests. More tests were going to be scheduled, there is some problem with the lab that does the testing and it is currently not operating. I bet the lawyers forced the timing of their decision to suspend approval of these bats just before the Conference season starts tomorrow. Where the bats fall on the compression scale isn't a USSSA function, that's a manufacturer function. As long as guys are going to spend $300+ for a bat that tests at 250 NIW and then have it fail after 20 swings, manufacturers are going to make those bats. Notice how none of these are from the major companies with better QC. It could be a QC issue and whoever actually makes these bats fudged the tolerances, or it could be an intentional bait and switch. That is what the further testing is going to determine.
Suncoast has put out a statement, saying pretty much what you'd expect.

 

[blakcherry329]

Change the ball and the bats won't matter as much.

 

[MAT25MAT]

Can’t use clincher everywhere, they are tough to get and cost a ton!

 

[clementeunknown]

All Suncoast are cooked or are the 1 pieces still g2g?

 

[D-ROCK13]

all the 1 pieces are good, I believe it's all usssa 2 pieces that are suspended as far as suncoast goes. I'm guessing the flexy handles are the problem

 

[MAT25MAT]

Handles are super stiff I believe!! Everything I heard is probably just rumor but people are saying the barrels are from senior models.

 

[D-ROCK13]

The 2 pieces I swung all felt flexy like eastons. the 1 pieces were stiffer

 

[blakcherry329]

Can’t use clincher everywhere, they are tough to get and cost a ton!

I hear ya. Those things are crazy expensive. Just saying that the game is just as enjoyable when you can't hit "excuse me" 300' shots. A guy on the other team hit a bomb with a Corn Dog in my wood bat league(not off of me, but I digress). Modified pitching.

 

[TWmccoy]

Not banned, at least not yet, suspended. And compression was not why there were suspended. Bats I've seen fail in the wrapper are not on this list.
Last summer USSSA pulled samples to be retested through the NTS testing that bats must pass in order to be approved and get a stamp. Three companies were found to have failed at least some of that testing. I was told this at C worlds. The rest of this is my own speculation from putting together what I have been told in the past and the statements being put out now. I believe they were giving the companies time for more testing to be done to see if this was isolated QC failure or if it was systemic. With the Conference season starting tomorrow and no resolution, I believe the decision was made to suspend all of these models pending the results of the investigation. Juno put out a statement, silence from Suncoast. Juno only had one subvariant that failed with a easily determined commonality. Suncoast looks like it's the whole product line.
My own purely reckless speculation, Ruckus' will be banned and Juno will have to change their UTH-43 handle. It was a joke at Worlds that everybody knew the Ruckus' shouldn't have been legal.
Let's see how many here will join in on the bashing of USSSA I'm seeing on Facebook, but not level any anger at the companies that knew, or should have known that their product was out of spec and took your money anyway.

I can't say I'm super mad at any entity here, but USSSA should have nipped this in the bud when it first became an issue. Letting 2 years go by and thousands of (now suspended) bats get sold was dumb, and it suddenly leaves lots of players at all levels scrambling.

I don't know many Juno swingers, but Suncoasts are f'ing everywhere. The last tourny I played in CO I'd say 2/3 of all bats used were Suncoasts. It's pretty jarring to be told a bat you've swung for over a year is suddenly illegal.

 

[hitless45]

Not all that surprised about it

 

[rmp0012002]

From what I gather the bats passed initial testing but after play they didn’t maintain the compression all new bats are suppose to. I think some of the Suncoast are now clear for play. Most of the barrels are made in China so you don’t really know what you have until they arrive.

 

[EAJuggalo]

From what I gather the bats passed initial testing but after play they didn’t maintain the compression all new bats are suppose to. I think some of the Suncoast are now clear for play. Most of the barrels are made in China so you don’t really know what you have until they arrive.

You just fell for an April Fools Joke made by a Suncoast fanboy saying that they have been taken off the suspended list. All bats listed are still suspended. Again, this has nothing to do with Compression.

I can't say I'm super mad at any entity here, but USSSA should have nipped this in the bud when it first became an issue. Letting 2 years go by and thousands of (now suspended) bats get sold was dumb, and it suddenly leaves lots of players at all levels scrambling.

What should the solution have been? I can just imagine what Carucci would have threatened if they would have suspended the Junos immediately in October.
Personally I think they should have suspended them as of Jan. 1. No way should they have been legal at Challenge Cup.

 

[ShortYellowBus]

@EAJuggalo

Big shout out to you brother. Thank you for keeping us all informed.

 

[D-ROCK13]

The rumor around here is they used Monsta Asa style handles, who knows though

 

[MAT25MAT]

Suncoast customer service seems to be telling people that a decision will come down in 2 weeks! Also think it will be resolved and temp ban lifted! But onky time will tell!

 

[ninerempire25]

Suncoast customer service seems to be telling people that a decision will come down in 2 weeks! Also think it will be resolved and temp ban lifted! But onky time will tell!

I sure hope so...I want to be able to swing mine again .
Been seeing a lot of people selling theirs on FB.

So is the new CE 2 legal ?

 

[tattooball]

Suncoast just had their ASA fast pitched bat banned it's on the list as of last night. Utrip and ASA use the same bat test for both. This isn't looking good. It's not a temp ban it's banned.

 

[TWmccoy]

I have a Juno (MK18) I'll probably end up selling. I don't see them suddenly saying it's legal again.

 

[jbo911]

I have a Juno (MK18) I'll probably end up selling. I don't see them suddenly saying it's legal again.

You have the bad handle? I could see the Juno coming back before the others. I could see a mfgr thinking handles don't matter and just putting them on approved bats without testing, and then being able to pass once tested.

 

[jbo911]

Change the ball and the bats won't matter as much.

First game caught a classic m off the palm. Waiting to see if it's broken now.

 

[blakcherry329]

Wow, that sux. Must have been a rocket to make the back of your hand swell up like that.
Hope it just a contusion.
On a side note, I was on the softball reddit page and someone signed their post with "no mask for life" SMH