ASA Batted Ball Contacting Runner on the Base

[fitzpats]

So this may sound like a complaining post about an umpire, and it is a bit. But I want to know your thoughts.

Runner on third is standing on the base with a shot hit down the line. Runner doesn't move and is hit with the ball while in contact with third base and our third baseman is attempting a diving stop as he is playing behind the runner. My understanding is runner is safe, ball is dead, batter-runner awarded first base, all other runners return to base last touched and only move up bases if forced.

Where in the rule book does it say that? Do I use the explanation of what interference is from Rule 1, couple it with 8-7-J and 8-8-M? If you look at 8-8-M, it only states that the runner is not out if hit with an untouched batted ball while in contact with the base. There is no effect or declaration that the ball is dead.

 

[NCASAUmp]

8-8-M covers it pretty well.

8-1-E-6 handles the live/dead portion.

 

[fitzpats]

8-8-M covers it pretty well.

8-1-E-6 handles the live/dead portion.

Perfect. Thanks so much!

 

[NCASAUmp]

Took me a bit of searching! Thank goodness I have an old PDF that puts me on the right track.

No, you can not have it. It's WAY old anyway.

 

[BretMan]

See Rules Supplement #44 for the official interpretation.

 

[Wally17]

I have a similar question. There is a runner on first and in contact with a base as he is struck with the batted ball. 1st baseman is playing behind the base. What is the ruling?

 

[Joker]

read the posts above

 

[NCASAUmp]

How is that even a "similar" question? That's the same damn question!

 

[EdFred]

How is that even a "similar" question? That's the same damn question!

One was at first base, and one was at third base. Duh!

 

[NCASAUmp]

Oh, well then... that makes all the difference.

 

[fitzpats]

Sorry to bump this back up, but ran into another umpire while working with him last night with the same thought process. I noticed F3 was playing in front of the bag when a runner was on, and wanted to let him know at the plate so he doesn't kill a ball too early. He told me that if the ball hits the runner, unless on the bag, the ball was dead. Regardless if it passed F3. If hit while on the bag, ball is live always. Was this ever the way the rule was written? Just surprised that I've had two different umpires with the same response. Thanks.
.

 

[Joker]

no, ump is dumb

 

[BigSam]

Just surprised that I've had two different umpires with the same response.

You are surprised that two umpires got the same rule wrong? You must have some great umpires. I'd say that's pretty standard, sort of like asking a cop what the law is.

 

[Sully]

Sorry to bump this back up, but ran into another umpire while working with him last night with the same thought process. I noticed F3 was playing in front of the bag when a runner was on, and wanted to let him know at the plate so he doesn't kill a ball too early. He told me that if the ball hits the runner, unless on the bag, the ball was dead. Regardless if it passed F3. If hit while on the bag, ball is live always. Was this ever the way the rule was written? Just surprised that I've had two different umpires with the same response. Thanks.
.

See Rules Supplement #44 for the official interpretation.

As far as I know I don't think it's been different. Rules Supplement #44 clearly says,"...When the closest defensive player is in front of the base that the runner is in contact with, the ball remains live. However, when the closest defensive player is behind the base, the ball is dead."

I'm sure you are asking one of these guys with a lot more experience than me, but I don't remember it being different. If it was different, I would say at least 15 years or more. It sounds like someone hasn't read the rule book and they might just be regurgitating something one of the older guys said without researching.

 

[JabNblue]

T

Sorry to bump this back up, but ran into another umpire while working with him last night with the same thought process. I noticed F3 was playing in front of the bag when a runner was on, and wanted to let him know at the plate so he doesn't kill a ball too early. He told me that if the ball hits the runner, unless on the bag, the ball was dead. Regardless if it passed F3. If hit while on the bag, ball is live always. Was this ever the way the rule was written? Just surprised that I've had two different umpires with the same response. Thanks.
.

The bags are where the boundaries of out of play contend. Not where a defensive player elects to stake position. I tried to find a ruling on where the defense stands, other than trying to approach a batter to distract them.

 

[irishmafia]

T

The bags are where the boundaries of out of play contend

I have no idea what this means.

Not where a defensive player elects to stake position. I tried to find a ruling on where the defense stands, other than trying to approach a batter to distract them.

Yes, it most definitely is where the closest defensive player is standing when determining whether the ball remains live or not

 

[fitzpats]

T

The bags are where the boundaries of out of play contend. Not where a defensive player elects to stake position. I tried to find a ruling on where the defense stands, other than trying to approach a batter to distract them.

The only reason that I mention the bag is that when the runner is on base, the runner has to be on the bag. Meaning, the fielder was in front of the runner. I just wanted my partner to be on the same page as me, and not declare a dead ball because the ball hits a runner after passing F3. The bag is a point of reference for visualization in explanation and had no bearing on the play.

 

[BretMan]

Possible source of confusion about the ball being live or dead...

An odd thing about runners being hit by batted balls while in contact with their base is that different sanctioning bodies handle it completely different. In all cases, unless the runner intentionally interferes with the ball, the runner is not out. But when it comes to the ball being live or dead, it's not always the same!

As noted above, for USA/ASA depends on the closest fielder. A runner hit while on base might result in a dead ball, but it might not.

For USSSA, a runner hit while on base the ball stays LIVE in all cases and play continues.

For NSA, the ball is always DEAD in this same situation!

Now how could anybody be confused...(and this is just for slow pitch. Some of the fastpitch rules are different too).