irishmafia
Addicted to Softballfans
Stop blaming umpires for teams playing like ****
Blues with attitude
- Thread starter r8dr_rider
- Start date
Stop blaming umpires for teams playing like ****
TWmccoy
3DX Connoisseur
I agree with this. I'm not going out there to antagonize players or get into verbal disputes with them, but I also won't be treated like a doormat when I'm umping. Some people see umpires as spineless and meek, but you need some gumption to succeed long term at the job.
99.5% of the guys I ump are perfectly courteous and respectful. You get that very small outlying group who think they can do or say whatever they want. That's when ejections start occurring.
I HAVE seen umps make their situations worse by being mouthy and too confrontational with lippy players.
TWmccoy
3DX Connoisseur
Going further, I will also say there are PLENTY of umps who shouldn't be out there. Guys who habitually do a piss poor job and do the absolute bare minimum of work. The only reason parks districts employ these guys is because THEY CAN'T FIND ANYONE ELSE! Filling adult umping positions with CAPABLE people is next to impossible. A couple districts I play league in are at the point they'll pretty much take any warm body to ump games. Its fairly demoralizing as a player to see these same people week in and week out and knowing you're going to have a hard time with the ump.
At this point, it isn't even that players are "bullying" the ump or whatever. Its simply an underqualified, apathetic person out there trying to do a job he shouldn't be doing in the first place. From a player's standpoint, it can ruin an evening in a hurry. NO ONE wants to show up to league on a weekly basis knowing they're going to have some garbage ump who's only there to pick up a quick $20/game.
On rare occasions you legitimately will get that ump who's on a power trip. He insinuates himself into every facet of the game and finds ways to make it about himself. I've run into guys like this, and NOTHING will ruin a game (or even an entire league's reputation) faster than umps who behave in this manner. Classic narcissists. These are the umps who create the most problems and are most likely to have players threaten them physically. They incite players, act rude, and basically pour gasoline on the fire. It isn't that these guys don't know the rules (they usually do), its that they try to ump in such a way as to suck all the fun out of the game. These same umps also WILL NOT listen to any criticism of their skills. They get super offended in a hurry and threaten to throw guys out.
As an ump you need to give guys a little leeway. Notice I said a LITTLE. I'll let guys argue a call..... once. Argue and then move on. I don't want to hear about a call I made 2 innings or 2 weeks later. If someone feels I missed a call, I have no problem hearing about it, so long as they do it in an educated manner. Going out there and attempting to ump with an iron fist won't produce good results. It just makes the players immediately hate you.
At this point, it isn't even that players are "bullying" the ump or whatever. Its simply an underqualified, apathetic person out there trying to do a job he shouldn't be doing in the first place. From a player's standpoint, it can ruin an evening in a hurry. NO ONE wants to show up to league on a weekly basis knowing they're going to have some garbage ump who's only there to pick up a quick $20/game.
On rare occasions you legitimately will get that ump who's on a power trip. He insinuates himself into every facet of the game and finds ways to make it about himself. I've run into guys like this, and NOTHING will ruin a game (or even an entire league's reputation) faster than umps who behave in this manner. Classic narcissists. These are the umps who create the most problems and are most likely to have players threaten them physically. They incite players, act rude, and basically pour gasoline on the fire. It isn't that these guys don't know the rules (they usually do), its that they try to ump in such a way as to suck all the fun out of the game. These same umps also WILL NOT listen to any criticism of their skills. They get super offended in a hurry and threaten to throw guys out.
As an ump you need to give guys a little leeway. Notice I said a LITTLE. I'll let guys argue a call..... once. Argue and then move on. I don't want to hear about a call I made 2 innings or 2 weeks later. If someone feels I missed a call, I have no problem hearing about it, so long as they do it in an educated manner. Going out there and attempting to ump with an iron fist won't produce good results. It just makes the players immediately hate you.
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Country469
Well-Known Member
I've said it before and I'll stick to it. To save $25/game, I'd be ok with the other team in league making the calls. If it comes down to one or two calls in a game, chances are you make 3-4 errors and took 3-4 bad swings too. 99.9% of softball games can be settled on the field, without the need for a highly trained and experienced umpire.
The whole idea that softball games are life or death is whats wrong with this thread. At no point in time, is a softball game ever worth acting a fool and showing your ass. I've seen sponsors pull mucho dollars after tirades on the field, and I've seen volunteer umps walk off the field at a major fund raiser because both teams couldn't stfu.
I like to imagine my dear mother in the stands every game and if I wouldnt do it in front of her, I shouldnt do it at the game either.
The whole idea that softball games are life or death is whats wrong with this thread. At no point in time, is a softball game ever worth acting a fool and showing your ass. I've seen sponsors pull mucho dollars after tirades on the field, and I've seen volunteer umps walk off the field at a major fund raiser because both teams couldn't stfu.
I like to imagine my dear mother in the stands every game and if I wouldnt do it in front of her, I shouldnt do it at the game either.
I can't stand the players that harass all umps equally, and usually stupidly. You're just going to run off the good ones.
I can handle inconsistency a lot better if the ump is just bad, than the ones that change based on who is playing or how they're acting. Conference guys have the same strike zone as church league guys of the same size. Also, if a team is trying to intimidate you and you want to change how you're calling, don't give in to them. Consistency is best, but if you can't do it them be more aggressive toward them. Don't reward them for being jerks, because that also punishes us for not being.
As a team that is largely considered nice guys, i can say that we get ruled against some times just because we won't make a stink. That sucks. The squeakywheel can get the grease, but don't give them the call too.
I can handle inconsistency a lot better if the ump is just bad, than the ones that change based on who is playing or how they're acting. Conference guys have the same strike zone as church league guys of the same size. Also, if a team is trying to intimidate you and you want to change how you're calling, don't give in to them. Consistency is best, but if you can't do it them be more aggressive toward them. Don't reward them for being jerks, because that also punishes us for not being.
As a team that is largely considered nice guys, i can say that we get ruled against some times just because we won't make a stink. That sucks. The squeakywheel can get the grease, but don't give them the call too.
NCASAUmp
Un-Retired
I don't think any of the umpires on this thread will ever deny that there are bad umpires. Being in the position I'm in, I've seen more than my fair share over the years. Patient as I am, there have been a few umpires whose names I've given to my assignor and said "don't put me with this person again, they are a liability." Over time, we try to weed those umpires out, but that's becoming increasingly difficult when there's no one around to replace them.
But if you think for a moment that the players don't share a fair amount of the responsibility here, then you're beyond delusional. The #1 reason that umpires give for quitting is the abuse they're getting from players, coaches, and fans. The $20-25/game just isn't worth it. And while there are certainly "paycheck umpires," they only last so long before they give up (or, again, we weed them out).
I'm not going to lie here, but the crap I dealt with on the field, particularly from the slow pitch side, played a major role in my decision to retire, despite having the honor and good fortune to have called many assignments at fairly high levels both in fast pitch and slow. My wife noticed a major difference in my demeanor when I would come home from calling fast pitch games instead of slow pitch games. Strange how I got less whining and crying from the girls than I did from the "grown men." But after my doc found tears in my hip labrum, I knew fast pitch was no longer an option, and I knew that my heart just wasn't in slow pitch anymore, despite the fact that my roots are in slow pitch.
Over the years, I went into each and every game by handing each team a clean slate, despite any issues I may have encountered with them in the past. Each team made their own choices as to how that game was going to go. Never seemed to matter much, because the same ****heads would keep acting ****ty. They knew where the line was, would stop just shy of it, but stay right there, toeing it all game long.
Now try and tell me that wouldn't irritate the **** out of you. Explain to me how being that big of an ******* is just "part of the game."
But if you think for a moment that the players don't share a fair amount of the responsibility here, then you're beyond delusional. The #1 reason that umpires give for quitting is the abuse they're getting from players, coaches, and fans. The $20-25/game just isn't worth it. And while there are certainly "paycheck umpires," they only last so long before they give up (or, again, we weed them out).
I'm not going to lie here, but the crap I dealt with on the field, particularly from the slow pitch side, played a major role in my decision to retire, despite having the honor and good fortune to have called many assignments at fairly high levels both in fast pitch and slow. My wife noticed a major difference in my demeanor when I would come home from calling fast pitch games instead of slow pitch games. Strange how I got less whining and crying from the girls than I did from the "grown men." But after my doc found tears in my hip labrum, I knew fast pitch was no longer an option, and I knew that my heart just wasn't in slow pitch anymore, despite the fact that my roots are in slow pitch.
Over the years, I went into each and every game by handing each team a clean slate, despite any issues I may have encountered with them in the past. Each team made their own choices as to how that game was going to go. Never seemed to matter much, because the same ****heads would keep acting ****ty. They knew where the line was, would stop just shy of it, but stay right there, toeing it all game long.
Now try and tell me that wouldn't irritate the **** out of you. Explain to me how being that big of an ******* is just "part of the game."
r8dr_rider
Well-Known Member
I get it some players suck ass. Some ppl In life suck ass too.
If you’re getting paid to officiate a game you should have some thick skin. Don’t deal with the name calling or BS, but if a player yells “common blue” don’t be a ****. I’ve seen too many umps power trip and throw players out for the smallest thing. Also yell at players like it’s little league. We grown ass men. Treat ppl how they treat you. If we act like little kids the treat us like kids, but it we yell at one bad call don’t be a ****. Ur getting paid. Most of us are paying.
If you’re getting paid to officiate a game you should have some thick skin. Don’t deal with the name calling or BS, but if a player yells “common blue” don’t be a ****. I’ve seen too many umps power trip and throw players out for the smallest thing. Also yell at players like it’s little league. We grown ass men. Treat ppl how they treat you. If we act like little kids the treat us like kids, but it we yell at one bad call don’t be a ****. Ur getting paid. Most of us are paying.
r8dr_rider
Well-Known Member
It’s like civil service....we pay your check home boy
Don’t be a **** or GTFO
Be ready for adult softball, you probably got 10 coaches on the field. It ain’t little league bro.
Don’t be a **** or GTFO
Be ready for adult softball, you probably got 10 coaches on the field. It ain’t little league bro.
NCASAUmp
Un-Retired
No. You're mixing two different topics.
NCASAUmp
Un-Retired
I've been ready for 26 years. Trust me, I've got thick skin.
But there comes a time when even I say "**** this, I'm done." And so I'm done.
I've never really cared about the "awwwe, come on, Blue!" Couldn't care less about that. But that's not what we're talking about, is it?
Joker
Well-Known Member
seems to be a lot of that going around by the umps in here. nothing but them complaining about players when that's not the topic
Joker
Well-Known Member
if a player crosses the line, umps can eject them
if an ump is a lazy ass or a prick, players have to deal with that all game and until the league does something. if they even decide to do something
tonys1
Moderator
We see that north of the border too. Even when the league owner sees it first hand he just sits there like an idiot and watches it unfold.
Twice I've seen umps warn a pitcher for arguing strikes, fine. After a few pitches everything seemingly calms down. A ball is way outside the zone, they take off their mask and yell back "WAS THAT A STRIKE TOO?", then all hell breaks loose.
NCASAUmp
Un-Retired
Except you can’t have one without the other. The players are getting worse, and umpires are pushing back. Sometimes, both sides go too far.
Just do our jobs. It’s a labor if love to me. Sure the money is a little something extra each month but I elect to do it for the love of the game. I played the game up until a couple years ago. One thing I learned from playing and umpiring. I have yet to ever swing a bat or make a throw, or pitch or catch a ball. It’s the players game not ours but we don’t win or lose games. It’s always welcome to hear a “good game blue”, but I would rather players not remember who had their games. We use a one man system in our Rec leagues. And I know I miss calls from time to time. With men’s leagues being able to steal, it’s tough to get behind second base to see a catch behind a sliding runner.
Don’t have rabbit ears. Don’t talk face to face when discussing a managers or players questioning a call. And I am sure all blues would agree. A bang bang play, one of the two teams will usually always have a comment. One team is happy the other isn’t. Just remember......with more competitive players, I am noticing the younger cocky men who think they are bigger than the game.
Eleven years 4 players total I’ve tossed. In the same Rec leagues we had a blue that loved to call games but had a take charge toss players attitude. One season from spring to fall leagues, 11 people total tossed that year 9 were his. Go figure. We are all human.
MaverickAH
Well-Known Member
There are players, teams & even leagues that fail to understand that umpires are paid to officiate & manage the game. There's no part of that fee that entitle them to verbally abuse or disrespect the umpire.
Umpires are not born fully fledged. Umpires have to be trained & developed. It's a growing process. Gaining on the field experience is a big part of that process. Ideally, you want to start a new ump off in less competitive, easier leagues but that's not always possible. In addition to knowing the rules, you have to know the game, learn the angles & how to move, have sufficient game management skills as well as learn how to maintain a calm demeanor. It's a lot...….
It take years & years of training, games & critiquing to become a MLB umpire. You still see mistakes & attitudes even on that level with all of the training & weeding out they go through. Who oh why would players think things would be better or different on a rec softball level?
Are there bad umpires out there? Absolutely, but they're not the norm & very often those bad umpires develop into good ones when given the opportunity & room to grow.
MaverickAH
Well-Known Member
I hear you on the labor of love!
Yes, we are all human. We are not automatons.
When I played competitively, we kept a book on opposing players, teams, managers & yes, even umpires. Whenever we had an umpire of questionable ability or character, we adjusted. We didn't engage. We tried to make the game simple for them. Reduce their opportunities to be a bad ump. In other words, keep your mouth shut & play the game. A bad ump can't take a clean hit away from you. Too many player & teams set up an adversarial environment before the game even starts. It's almost a self fulfilling proposition.
bestbatstats
New Member
Umpires are like teachers. We should pay them more money. But I want to pay them more money, so we can actually get better applicants through the doors. Currently its a crapshoot in both professions.
r8dr_rider
Well-Known Member
This.
But umps need to know what they are signing up for. You’re always gonna be the most hated on the field. Just cuz someone pissed in ur cereal doesn’t give you the right to eject players cuz they didn’t agree with your call.
And for the great umps out there that are professional, respectful and many times funny. I thank you. I love it when a player says something and the ump has a funny witty comeback. Make the game fun, as it should be.
NCASAUmp
Un-Retired
I’ve never ejected a player who didn’t deserve it. I’ll give guys reasonable chances, but there are lines that must be drawn for me to do my job effectively. You have every right to question my call, and I’ll hear you out. But there’s a difference between questioning the call and questioning me as an impartial umpire. The latter will likely get you tossed out.
EAJuggalo
Addicted to Softballfans
We do. When we have a respectful team they get spoken to respectfully, when we deal with a team full of asshats, they get treated like a team full of asshats. I've been lucky enough to work Conference USSSA, there are many games there where I'm the lowest paid guy on the field. I don't care if you disagree with my call, but if you violate one of the 3 P's you can take a seat outside the fence and rejoin your team after the game. The 3 P's are Personal, Prolonged and Profane. Working local leagues, I get paid $14/game anywhere from 2-4 games per night. I've lost money the last three years umpiring, not to mention the time away from my family.
r8dr_rider
Well-Known Member
I hear you man. Sounds like you and EAjuggalo are solid umps.
NCASAUmp
Un-Retired
We do our best to do it right. We know it’s a paid service, and we know there are competitors. Even if there weren’t any competition, we’d still strive to do it right, because our integrity depends on it. As such, we are our own biggest competition - we’re striving to do better than the last game.
I think a lot of umpires feel the same way. And even those that don’t may eventually come around. Back in 2007, I thought I was doing it right, and you couldn’t tell me any different. Eventually, I realized I was wrong, and I turned the ship around.
Give those other umpires the chance to do the same before you guys run them out.
I'd say it's 90/10 on the players. I've played for over 25 years and I've only ever heard one umpire say something over the line. I've seem multiple players try and put their hands on the ump.
Teachers have been underpaid for decades.
It's a closer comparison to servers. You pay their salary, but you're stupid for harassing them because they can make the rest of your hour miserable if they want to.
Teachers have been underpaid for decades.
It's a closer comparison to servers. You pay their salary, but you're stupid for harassing them because they can make the rest of your hour miserable if they want to.
blakcherry329
Well-Known Member
The question isn't about Umpire competency, it's attitude. We have lots of "bad" umps here in NJ. However, there's only an issue when they have bad attitudes. As long as an ump is approachable, I don't have too much of an issue with them. It's the ones that have a short fuse that you can't say BOO to that's the issue, good or bad.
We should be able to respectfully question a call without having it escalate.
I don't think anyone here is condoning verbally abusing an umpire. That's not what the non-umps here are saying. However, It does seem like all the umps posting are kinda 'circling the wagons" and acting a little defensive.
We should be able to respectfully question a call without having it escalate.
I don't think anyone here is condoning verbally abusing an umpire. That's not what the non-umps here are saying. However, It does seem like all the umps posting are kinda 'circling the wagons" and acting a little defensive.
NCASAUmp
Un-Retired
Of course we are. We're fed up, man. Our numbers have been dropping off big time, and no one is stepping up.
And I've seen videos of how y'all treat umpires up in NJ. No thank you.