D/E/C division solution?

[simpsonps121]

Ok, the other thread is superb!! Yes, E/D/C etc, with shaved bats etc.

What about an association that changes the award packages to benefit the higher class team?

Example:
E Class - Nothing.
D Class - Cash Prize
C Class - Bigger Cash Prize.

In MD ISA typically runs these tournaments the same weekend. They currently have it set up for from each team to go into their respective class' "award fund."

Right now the E award fund is up to $2,120 and the D is up to $1,420.

What if they did not award any funds to E, and awarded D $1,420 and C $2,120?

Wouldn't that force teams to play up? No point in the better teams playing down if you can't win anything.

Tear this idea apart so we can make it better.

 

[bigdog69]

theres acouple problems with this
1.not really fair if E is bringing in all the money for it to be awarded to D
2.what keeps even bigger teams of sandbaggers to come and take the bigger prizes from the legit teams like a B team changing there name and playing D

 

[synergy40]

The players are classified not the team name. If you are classified as b, then a lower class team cannot have more than three players from a higher class. Everyone one in your area will know if a b player is playing d. This whole situation will never happen, toooooooooo much $$$$$$$$$ to lose.

 

[bigdog69]

The players are classified not the team name. If you are classified as b, then a lower class team cannot have more than three players from a higher class. Everyone one in your area will know if a b player is playing d. This whole situation will never happen, toooooooooo much $$$$$$$$$ to lose.

ya they have tried that here players spell there names different or go under a different name all together happens all the time

 

[cntrain]

You run an association like a business. You keep your biggest groups of customers happy to grow the business. If you have 15 E teams, 12 D, 8 C, and 4 B teams in a tournament and offer the prize money in the opposite proportion to the number of teams, you won't have an association for long. You won't push teams to move up, they will go somewhere else to play.

 

[skinz187]

all problems solved if all asa rosters are entered into one centralized database that is accessible on asa's website...and it wouldnt be that hard to do. all league directors provide a roster (with full legal name of players) to the state's asa office for every team in that league. then each state is responsible to forward all rosters to asa. asa simply creates a database that is accessible for tourney directors...walllaa.

then you simply up the penalty on teams for using illegal players....problem solved. right now it is to easy to use illegal players and the penalties for doing so are to minimal. if you create a situation where it is easy to get caught "cheating", and the penalty for doing so is a bit more harsch....teams will simply not want to gamble...which will stop sandbagging.

with the technology we have today, it just boggles my mind that asa doesnt take advantage of it. sandbagging is probably the number one complain/concern of todays softball players. softball players invest alot of money and time into the game we love to play (regardless if your an "a" player or an "e" player). the integrity of tournaments should protected from "sandbaggers" that want to go play down to stroke their own ego.

 

[coleman135]

another solution would be to tell teams that win a certain tournament that the next tournament they play they have to enter a higher class then the one they just won. If a team wins an E tournament then the next tournament they enter has to be a D or higher.

 

[Boston's #7]

all problems solved if all asa rosters are entered into one centralized database that is accessible on asa's website...and it wouldnt be that hard to do. all league directors provide a roster (with full legal name of players) to the state's asa office for every team in that league. then each state is responsible to forward all rosters to asa. asa simply creates a database that is accessible for tourney directors...walllaa.

then you simply up the penalty on teams for using illegal players....problem solved. right now it is to easy to use illegal players and the penalties for doing so are to minimal. if you create a situation where it is easy to get caught "cheating", and the penalty for doing so is a bit more harsch....teams will simply not want to gamble...which will stop sandbagging.

with the technology we have today, it just boggles my mind that asa doesnt take advantage of it. sandbagging is probably the number one complain/concern of todays softball players. softball players invest alot of money and time into the game we love to play (regardless if your an "a" player or an "e" player). the integrity of tournaments should protected from "sandbaggers" that want to go play down to stroke their own ego.

USSSA uses that "technology" but it still takes a person to make it work...."sandbaggers" still get through because of that.

 

[AmishFusion]

ya they have tried that here players spell there names different or go under a different name all together happens all the time

dang you caught me

 

[simpsonps121]

Good comments.

1. Will you really lose teams? Maybe not. More E teams will play - they are just trying to have fun. The teams chasing money will bump up unless the competition is too rough. Then maybe you put Colemans idea into practice. Win 2 D's, must move to C or something like that.

Ideally, you would create a English Premier League Model. Where the most cash to the players and team comes from the highest level. But, you can start at the bottom and move up over time. You just have to set it as a goal to reach.

Skinz and Boston are correct - Rosters are easy. Valid with License and registered on a web site. It is probably the EASIEST to handle, but the association must work hard at it.

Great feedback!

 

[Sully]

another solution would be to tell teams that win a certain tournament that the next tournament they play they have to enter a higher class then the one they just won. If a team wins an E tournament then the next tournament they enter has to be a D or higher.

This is a good idea and many directors have tried it. The problem with this idea is the team forms under a new name, or drops two or three players and wants to start over because "they aren't the same team that won State last year".

In smaller areas or local leagues you could probably enforce this idea easier. For tournament teams that travel a lot or play different associations, it would be next to impossible to enforce.

 

[hevyd258]

The only thing that will stop any sort of cheating in softball (sandbagging, shaving ect...) is honesty and people actually taking pride in what they accomplish or don't accomplish. There are such things as true E teams, or teams that are just starting out and playing in a few tourny's here and there. Those teams should not be punished and not be awarded for their efforts because of others who play down. Honesty is the only solution!

 

[RDD15]

How about if you win more than one sanctioned tourney in a class in one calendar year, you move up for next year, until you hit class A. If you win zero sanctioned tourneys in your class in a year, you can move down one class the next year.

Players are classified, and a list is kept online of every classified player in each state. (Which is easy. TD's collect rosters before the tournament, and supply the State director with the winning team's roster. The State director keeps a database of players that have won at each level. At the end of the year, a player classification list is released. A "C" team can have x (small) amount of "B" players, etc, and anyone can play up if they want to.

Bottom line is that if you are on a team that is good enough to win a couple of C tourneys, then you should be able to hang in B for a year. If you are a D team and can't win a tourney somewhere, then you get to try winning at E. The reason for classifying players is to keep a team from making a couple of changes to its roster, renaming the team, and playing the same level again if they were supposed to move up.

The biggest issue would be if "John Smith" were a #10 hitting catcher for a C team that was pretty good, but poor John just isn't as good as the rest of the team. The team gets moved up, but John is not asked back. John is now a D quality player that has a B classification. He could play C but a C team isnt going to want him if they only get a couple of B players. John would be SOL here.

 

[Madco]

The problem with winning then getting bumped is the directors won't do it. They say it then never follow through. Make it so teams can only play say 2 E tourneys then they must move to D. Give them two tourneys, if they don't do so well, let them reapply to be put back in E. Its not flawless, but someone smarter than me could tweak it to make it work. Also, get rid of E states, nationals etc. Make E whats its supposed to be pickup teams and rec teams just having fun.

 

[RDD15]

The problem with winning then getting bumped is the directors won't do it. They say it then never follow through. Make it so teams can only play say 2 E tourneys then they must move to D. Give them two tourneys, if they don't do so well, let them reapply to be put back in E. Its not flawless, but someone smarter than me could tweak it to make it work. Also, get rid of E states, nationals etc. Make E whats its supposed to be pickup teams and rec teams just having fun.

Take this out of the director's hands. National requirement. Win 2, and you move up. No questions, no subjective decision by anyone.

 

[rkjunior]

It's very simple. If tournament paintball can do it, softball can do it. Have everyone register an ID onto a website tha tracks players history, teams, etc. Everyone gets an ID from the same database, which means everyone is tracked in terms of level. If you win, you get bumped up a class and everyone can easily see that. Look at http://www.paintball-players.org/ for an example.. It could be very easy IF THEY WANTED TO ENFORCE IT.

 

[skinz187]

by having individual players classified (which they are now), and in database...teams could not just change their name and move down. if a team was a "new" team, but they had 4 or more from last years previous team, they would have to play at same level as "last years" team....ijs