DB44 vs. Miken DC-41

lakeyale13

lakeyale13

Manager
chile said:
yes, it is an Easton....started out as a Canadian exclusive, if I recall correctly. oddly enough, Easton released this after they ate combat.
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So fascinated by Easton eating Combat. You have Wilson owning Demarini and LS...you would think Easton could manage two brands too. Comabat in North Carolina had a small but increasing fan base when I started to leave the sport, but they were mad loyal (AKA Normy).

I only swung a couple (Anti Virus and Plague). I felt like both were flaming piles of turds compared to the UTrip / ASA bats that were out there. I do wish I had swung the original B1 Da Bomb. I remember hearing they were crazy hot, but had a glass jaw.
 
4xtra

4xtra

Player/Coach
lakeyale13 said:
So fascinated by Easton eating Combat. You have Wilson owning Demarini and LS...you would think Easton could manage two brands too. Comabat in North Carolina had a small but increasing fan base when I started to leave the sport, but they were mad loyal (AKA Normy).

I only swung a couple (Anti Virus and Plague). I felt like both were flaming piles of turds compared to the UTrip / ASA bats that were out there. I do wish I had swung the original B1 Da Bomb. I remember hearing they were crazy hot, but had a glass jaw.
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Combat bats are so terrible,
the umpire should call the police and have you arrested for swinging them....
(Im serious, that is a DISORDERLY CONDUCT charge for swinging them.)
No offense Normy but my experience with combat was absolutely horrible.
Below average performance and NO durability what so ever.
I had several shatter in my hands while swinging them on several occasions
 
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CA0

Starting Player
How do you guys get 400 swings out of 2018 DB44 or 2019 DB44? I have both and 50 swings in these were stupid hot.
 
lakeyale13

lakeyale13

Manager
CA0 said:
How do you guys get 400 swings out of 2018 DB44 or 2019 DB44? I have both and 50 swings in these were stupid hot.
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Mainly by using Evil BP balls. They perform well without destroying your bat.

Although, I did use my DB44 with Classic M's and I think I may have a crack in the bat. Bummer man.
 
lakeyale13

lakeyale13

Manager
4xtra said:
Combat bats are so terrible,
the umpire should call the police and have you arrested for swinging them....
(Im serious, that is a DISORDERLY CONDUCT charge for swinging them.)
No offense Normy but my experience with combat was absolutely horrible.
Below average performance and NO durability what so ever.
I had several shatter in my hands while swinging them on several occasions
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Been my experience too. Only people I saw hit well with them were absolute MASHERS (400' power). The ones I hit back in the day were like taking a knife to a gun fight as far as performance.

If you are a slap hitter / just get on base guy then maybe they work for you. I just couldn't put a combat in my hands that actually performed as well as the other sticks out there.
 
jbo911

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
THESHOE said:
What I do like about playing with the harder balls on the occasions we get; grounders stay truer on the ground.
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I hate this phrase. True to what? The 52 bounces more like a baseball. The classic m just doesn't bounce, but if you get a bad hop it'll bite your face like anything else.

Not bouncing wouldn't be a true bounce imo, but all balls bounce true unless they're lopsided.
 
lakeyale13

lakeyale13

Manager
jbo911 said:
I hate this phrase. True to what? The 52 bounces more like a baseball. The classic m just doesn't bounce, but if you get a bad hop it'll bite your face like anything else.

Not bouncing wouldn't be a true bounce imo, but all balls bounce true unless they're lopsided.
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I agree. I have never noticed one ball "bouncing" differently from another ball. At least not significantly different. If they were made out of different materials (synthetic vs. leather) maybe...but not even that different between the two. Or at least that has been my experience.

I think the biggest difference has to do with the field you're playing on and the weather conditions. Is the infield clay or sand? Has it rained or been bone dry for three weeks? Those will have the greatest impact on how the ball will react.
 
dunkky

dunkky

Well-Known Member
actually, i've heard that a quite bit. 52 bounces funny after 2-3 hops. i've also experienced that as well multiple times when i played 3rd in one season. i don't know if hard balls do that as well since i don't play utrip that many times and never have played infield when i do. maybe it's ground condition or texas weather. i don't know. no clue. but all in all, i am all for using 52s, again for the safety reason for beer league guys who primarily want to come out and have some fun. but u know sometimes that former college baseball guy shows up in E league and shoots a laser in the middle.... things can happen.
 
jbo911

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
dunkky said:
actually, i've heard that a quite bit. 52 bounces funny after 2-3 hops. i've also experienced that as well multiple times when i played 3rd in one season. i don't know if hard balls do that as well since i don't play utrip that many times and never have played infield when i do. maybe it's ground condition or texas weather. i don't know. no clue. but all in all, i am all for using 52s, again for the safety reason for beer league guys who primarily want to come out and have some fun. but u know sometimes that former college baseball guy shows up in E league and shoots a laser in the middle.... things can happen.
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52 does bounce more. Cor is basically a measure of how much the ball bounces. 52 is like a baseball and a classic m is like a croquet ball. Sure it won't bounce as much, and might cover up a bumpy field, but when it does take a bad hop it's going to take you out.
 
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THESHOE

Starting Player
I find the harder the ball the likely it stays along the ground. All will bounce, yes. But the 52 bounces more.

The 52s love to bounce, like a lacrosse ball does off concrete. Hits infield rut and will come back up at you. Softer ball, more likely to compress off the ground and ruts.

The games we got with 44 cor Gold Dots - Grounders stayed on the ground a lot more. Yes they can take bad hops off ruts. But no random crazy hops like you see with the soft 52. It was an observation almost everyone playing concluded to, but also observed the exit speeds were stupid and we needed that league to adopt 52.

Now it's 52 everywhere here for this season for me. Just gotta deal with it.



jbo911 said:
I hate this phrase. True to what? The 52 bounces more like a baseball. The classic m just doesn't bounce, but if you get a bad hop it'll bite your face like anything else.

Not bouncing wouldn't be a true bounce imo, but all balls bounce true unless they're lopsided.
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This statement I don't disagree with. But trust me when I say the 52 likes to bounce and hop at random on you A LOT more than the harder balls staying truer along the ground. Regardless of field conditions.

I agree though, the 52 hop hitting you hurts less than when it occurs with a 44.



jbo911 said:
52 does bounce more. Cor is basically a measure of how much the ball bounces. 52 is like a baseball and a classic m is like a croquet ball. Sure it won't bounce as much, and might cover up a bumpy field, but when it does take a bad hop it's going to take you out.
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THESHOE

Starting Player
40/44 cor they are OK at best at 50 swings.

52cor they are not good. Out of wrapper Fulk put my 2 Juggys with lots of work into them to shame quick on the 52 cor.

Takes a good amount of work with harder balls to get the Juggys primed. TBH this weekend my Fulk switched a gear and the Juggys are being stubborn. I am going to need to get out with a batch of nothing but 44cor/400 and give them a good beating. They are behind.

Or am I just spoiled with the Black Nautalais and Fulk?


CA0 said:
How do you guys get 400 swings out of 2018 DB44 or 2019 DB44? I have both and 50 swings in these were stupid hot.
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jbo911

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
THESHOE said:
I find the harder the ball the likely it stays along the ground. All will bounce, yes. But the 52 bounces more.

The 52s love to bounce, like a lacrosse ball does off concrete. Hits infield rut and will come back up at you. Softer ball, more likely to compress off the ground and ruts.

The games we got with 44 cor Gold Dots - Grounders stayed on the ground a lot more. Yes they can take bad hops off ruts. But no random crazy hops like you see with the soft 52. It was an observation almost everyone playing concluded to, but also observed the exit speeds were stupid and we needed that league to adopt 52.

Now it's 52 everywhere here for this season for me. Just gotta deal with it.





This statement I don't disagree with. But trust me when I say the 52 likes to bounce and hop at random on you A LOT more than the harder balls staying truer along the ground. Regardless of field conditions.

I agree though, the 52 hop hitting you hurts less than when it occurs with a 44.
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But wouldn't that mean the 52 is a truer bounce? I don't like the term, true, in this context, but the one that covers up the field conditions would be less true would it not.

People use true when they mean easier to predict. At least the people I know personally that try and make this argument do. Covering up the truth of the field conditions and the balls interaction with each other would be less true Imo. Concealing the truth isn't more true.
 
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THESHOE

Starting Player
I guess when I said "True" I meant - Stays along the ground moreso.

As in a more traditional ground ball like a hardball that has a roll along the ground that you can read and field traditionally.

Sometimes the 52cor starts as a grounder and before you know it you look like a figgin hockey goalie trying to make saves on it and its nasty bouncy changes in direction. The slightest rut and it takes a bounce easily.

Again, locally I am not alone to observe it. The Gold dot vs Hot dot stayed on the ground and easier to field in the infield, albeit faster exit speed. If I make any sense now lol.

It's like comparing playing hockey with a hard official black puck, and then suddendly switching to a foam or sponge based practice puck.
 
K

kvander

Addicted to Softballfans
THESHOE said:
Again, locally I am not alone to observe it. The Gold dot vs Hot dot stayed on the ground and easier to field in the infield, albeit faster exit speed. If I make any sense now lol.
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The amount of spin from hot dots is the biggest factor for the bad hops. The bouncier ball has more spin off the bat when it isn't hit cleanly, which is usually the case with ground balls.
We played one game last year with 52/275s in my modified league (we usually use grey dots), and there were more bad bounces in that one game than there were in the rest of the season combined. The difference is yuge!
 
jbo911

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
THESHOE said:
I guess when I said "True" I meant - Stays along the ground moreso.

As in a more traditional ground ball like a hardball that has a roll along the ground that you can read and field traditionally.

Sometimes the 52cor starts as a grounder and before you know it you look like a figgin hockey goalie trying to make saves on it and its nasty bouncy changes in direction. The slightest rut and it takes a bounce easily.

Again, locally I am not alone to observe it. The Gold dot vs Hot dot stayed on the ground and easier to field in the infield, albeit faster exit speed. If I make any sense now lol.

It's like comparing playing hockey with a hard official black puck, and then suddendly switching to a foam or sponge based practice puck.
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I know what you mean and what you meant. Unless you meant a baseball when you said hard ball, but I think you meant a harder softball.
I don't know anything about pucks, but I do know field conditions and they're usually terrible. Also, people switching from a 44 or 40 are still playing back where they have to because of those balls exit speeds. Back before low core balls you didn't play far behind the basepath because you were asking to eat a ball. Players churn up the dirt there. As soon as people move up the 52 face shots go down. There will still be more, but they'shouldn't be as many hospital visits.

People say true because they can't see the things on the ground that cause the bad hops. I've played with 52s on turf and they bounce a lot, but there's no weird bounces there from spin or anything else. The weird bounces are caused by the ground. That's all I'm saying.
 
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SwingTheD206

Active Member
I've seen 52's take some absolutely miserable hops in both the infield and outfield. If you play on an infield that isn't manicured, it could be a long day. If you play on an outfield surface that is hard be it from the cold or has divets or uneven spots, it's not going to be fun either. I could care less what ball I'm hitting, but defensively I would prefer using a Classic M or 40/44 cor ball unless playing on turf, then I have no preference which ball is used.
 
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SwingTheD206

Active Member
THESHOE said:
40/44 cor they are OK at best at 50 swings.

52cor they are not good. Out of wrapper Fulk put my 2 Juggys with lots of work into them to shame quick on the 52 cor.

Takes a good amount of work with harder balls to get the Juggys primed. TBH this weekend my Fulk switched a gear and the Juggys are being stubborn. I am going to need to get out with a batch of nothing but 44cor/400 and give them a good beating. They are behind.

Or am I just spoiled with the Black Nautalais and Fulk?
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Couldn't say it any better. Juggy's are not the best when it comes to using 52's. I'm shocked you haven't switched over to using the Nautalai's or Twisted Mistress exclusively. I understand you prefer the composite handle, but IMO, you're at a disadvantage with the Juggy vs. 52's and even harder balls if you base solely performance. There's a legitimate reason why Dale has moved over to the Nautalai platform for his new sig bat.
 
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THESHOE

Starting Player
Juggys - Love the feel and my BP sticks. There's always a hope they will hit a next level for the 52. Absolutely mashes harder balls right now, 18 or 19.

Fulk - Was NIW new last week, and meant as a BP stick. After some outings with Rocks, now parked for game use or 52 occasional BP only. Have to manage it. Webbed up etc etc and hot now, even with current temp 52.

My Black OG Nautalais - I have 2. One to be used until I cannot any longer, one right behind it ready with 100~ swings of 52s on it tops. Let a few local D reps have a go at it this winter since it was a rare thing in Canada. They are all about the Red, and frankly - Soon I will be deciding whether it's a DB44 or Red I will be adding. I have a mid summer event I need to show up with a NIW just in case mine don't pass etc.

Hopefully a 12" loaded Nautalai or Comp handle version happens. They need to focus on Cont Fib barrels. That said, if Utrip goes to 240 what happens? Do they adjust the makeup of these bats? We don't know if our sanctions here with the orthodox ball (52) / bat (Utrip new stamp) combo will do etc.


SwingTheD206 said:
Couldn't say it any better. Juggy's are not the best when it comes to using 52's. I'm shocked you haven't switched over to using the Nautalai's or Twisted Mistress exclusively. I understand you prefer the composite handle, but IMO, you're at a disadvantage with the Juggy vs. 52's and even harder balls if you base solely performance. There's a legitimate reason why Dale has moved over to the Nautalai platform for his new sig bat.
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Big Lebombski

New Member
Wild that the DB44 is considered trash when using a 52. It's not been my experience at all. I wouldn't say it's the holy grail of sticks but it keeps up with anything else we have (MIKEN/WORTH).

The feel and sound absolutely make me feel I am not hitting it very well but the ball goes and I knock them out as much as I do with the other bats.

In terms of what balls it hits better it's always been my experience that any bat crushes the harder stuff. I've never had an instance where I said "this bat sucks with 44's".

The Fulk honestly reminded me of our CL22. Similar in all ways to me. I didnt have much success with it. On a few hits it did sound a bit nicer and the ball flew pretty good. So probably just me not able to find the sweet spot consistently.

I haven't had a chance to try the New continuous fiber tech but if they are that much better than the Juggy than I can only imagine why people are hyped up.
I can't justify spending $300+ (in Canada) on the hype tho cause I bought into the fireflex last year on two occasions and wasn't impressed.

I'm not telling anyone to run out and buy a Juggy, it's not the best bat I've ever swung. But its also not garbage with 52's, it just doesn't stand out.

That said I DO want to try a Nautalai just to see..
 
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THESHOE

Starting Player
Mostly 2 factors.

And I speak as my 2019 Juggy finally starts to shift gears a good 500+ cuts later with so many different balls. (52, 40, 44, 47)

Sweet spot to the Juggy remains smaller. Is it the stacked comp? 12" ?

Fulk still has a hotter, quicker bigger sweet spot for 12" - CL22 comparison is very good. But newer APC tech (Newbreed) gets the barrel a bit softer, quicker, and performs a bit better with 52s than the CL22 line did. Feel wise, a lot like the white CL22 to me. And in a good way. That was prob my fav CL22.

Nautalais have the bigger sweet spot on 13" going. Might even be a bigger hot spot than some 14" barrels imo. And they work in within about 25 hits or so.
 
jbo911

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
My only complaint about the Juggy is it's tough to stay consistent with that heavy of an endloaded, and limited bombs. If I can seeing away, fine, but I'm not playing enough to be happy with my consistency with placing the ball as little as I'm playing now.

We've been rained out four weeks of leagues, and only played two tournaments in six weeks maybe. State was half rained out in that time too.
 
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Big Lebombski

New Member
THESHOE said:
Mostly 2 factors.

And I speak as my 2019 Juggy finally starts to shift gears a good 500+ cuts later with so many different balls. (52, 40, 44, 47)

Sweet spot to the Juggy remains smaller. Is it the stacked comp? 12" ?

Fulk still has a hotter, quicker bigger sweet spot for 12" - CL22 comparison is very good. But newer APC tech (Newbreed) gets the barrel a bit softer, quicker, and performs a bit better with 52s than the CL22 line did. Feel wise, a lot like the white CL22 to me. And in a good way. That was prob my fav CL22.

Nautalais have the bigger sweet spot on 13" going. Might even be a bigger hot spot than some 14" barrels imo. And they work in within about 25 hits or so.
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Mine is the '18. So stacked comp yeah. Put another 180 on it today at lunch with a mixed bag and the last 50 or so were pretty impressive. On par with my mikens no better or worse. I like the feel a bit better than the 14 inch barrels tho. But it never particularly sounds like you hit it good. Just kind of a mute thud

I'll have to try the Fulk again if I get a chance. I found it really hard to hit although I also really liked the white CL22. Maybe it needed more work but we'll see.

Buddy just picked up a '18 twisted mistress so excited to give that a try.
 
T

THESHOE

Starting Player
That's kind of odd.

I didn't like it in the cold dome.

But, once I got one (won it) - Barrel felt pretty soft from the get go. Noticeably softer than the Juggy 19 did. Got good really quick with 2 BP's with a buddy helping me hit a batch of 40/44s. Webbed up pretty good and we parked it until BP with 52s when it performed there too.

Juggy 19 slowly shifts gears, I have hope it gets very close to pass line soon and really smashes 52 cause I love the feel of the bat. Hits anything harder than 52 well, but on the 52 just OK. Doesn't stand out like my Nautalais and Fulk do. Same case for 18 Juggy. I want to make this my gamer, but it would have to hit like my Black Nautalais or Fulk to get that spot.

I've been finding myself "wanting" to hit the Fulk more than my OG Nautalais lately. They are comparable in performance, but the Fulk has a really sweet feel for me. Great weight to it.

Maybe I am just a 12" barrel kinda guy. I did have a good run with Green Helmer and Hall 12" Worth bats...


Big Lebombski said:
Mine is the '18. So stacked comp yeah. Put another 180 on it today at lunch with a mixed bag and the last 50 or so were pretty impressive. On par with my mikens no better or worse. I like the feel a bit better than the 14 inch barrels tho. But it never particularly sounds like you hit it good. Just kind of a mute thud

I'll have to try the Fulk again if I get a chance. I found it really hard to hit although I also really liked the white CL22. Maybe it needed more work but we'll see.

Buddy just picked up a '18 twisted mistress so excited to give that a try.
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