Any Does the run score?

[Tray07]

Ok...one out. Runner on first and runner on third. Fly ball is hit to the outfield. The ball is caught for out two. Both runners tag. Third base runner goes home and first base runner makes it to third. The team in the field appeals the runner leaving first early. The ump calls him out. Does the run (3rd base runner) count?
The ump said no. I say yes. The out is recorded at the time of the appeal not at the time of the tag....which means that since it was not a force and scored before the out was recorded..it counts.
Which is correct???

 

[wolfpacker27]

i agree with the ump. but then, im no ump

 

[eddieq]

In this situation, if the runner from third crossed before the appeal out was recorded, it counts. A runner returning to touch a base left too early is NOT a force. You are completely correct on this one, Tray. Bad call, Blue.

 

[Tray07]

What made this call even worse: that run would have tied it up in the bottom of the 7th. Maybe not though...we were waiting to play the winner and it was already very late!

 

[BretMan]

We haven't had this question for a couple of weeks...

Which kind of makes up for the times when we had it four times in one week!

Count the run!

I wonder why the coach of the offended team didn't file an official protest? If he had, then the bad call could have been reversed. All it takes is a coach who knows the right rule and understands the official protest procedure.

 

[Tray07]

So sorry to be repetitive BretMan...just thought it would be quicker and easier than reading nearly 40,000 posts in this area. My bad!

 

[spos21ram]

This has been asked at least 25 times since March. The run counts.

 

[Tray07]

Hahaha! You guys repeatedly telling me my post is a repeat is priceless!

 

[IrishBlue]

There's a reason why

When there are two umps on the game there is a signal, where one umpire taps a finger on his wrist. This is to signal there is a time play situation. This would be one of those situations. Run scores.

 

[irishmafia]

When there are two umps on the game there is a signal, where one umpire taps a finger on his wrist. This is to signal there is a time play situation. This would be one of those situations. Run scores.

That is only in NCAA. My personal feeling is that it is a joke and completely unnecessary. It can also be confusing since it is so similar to the IF reminder.

 

[BretMan]

So sorry to be repetitive BretMan...just thought it would be quicker and easier than reading nearly 40,000 posts in this area. My bad!

There is a search function, so it's not like you'd have to read all 40,000 posts.

Don't get your panties in a bunch. It's a running joke here that this same question gets asked about a dozen times a month.

I commend you for being on the right track with your own ruling (though you must not have been 100% sure or else you wouldn't have posted here).

 

[ozo974]

runner is out, run does not count..Was all one continuous play

 

[BretMan]

runner is out, run does not count..Was all one continuous play

...and then, there are always a few of these thrown in for good measure...

 

[irishmafia]

runner is out, run does not count..Was all one continuous play

Where does your type come from, ey?

 

[Tray07]

No panty bunching here BretMan...just giving it back to ya...no worries.
We have been arguing the finer points of this call for two weeks...just looking for more opinions.

 

[GShreve5]

No panty bunching here BretMan...just giving it back to ya...no worries.
We have been arguing the finer points of this call for two weeks...just looking for more opinions.

The problem is it's not an opinion, it's a rule and a fact. The run counts.

 

[NCASAUmp]

We haven't had this question for a couple of weeks...

Which kind of makes up for the times when we had it four times in one week!

Count the run!

I wonder why the coach of the offended team didn't file an official protest? If he had, then the bad call could have been reversed. All it takes is a coach who knows the right rule and understands the official protest procedure.

I'll admit I kinda dropped the ball on this one. pob14 took the time to write a post on this subject matter that was meant to be a sticky, and he sent it to me for a peer review. I took forever to get back to him.

Sorry, pob14.

 

[bamaboy1626]

In this situation, if the runner from third crossed before the appeal out was recorded, it counts. A runner returning to touch a base left too early is NOT a force. You are completely correct on this one, Tray. Bad call, Blue.

I firmly believe that it's a force. If they had thrown the ball back in and went right to first before the runner made it back it's a force out and by rule no run can score when the 3rd out is enforced on a force play.

 

[pob14]

I'll admit I kinda dropped the ball on this one. pob14 took the time to write a post on this subject matter that was meant to be a sticky, and he sent it to me for a peer review. I took forever to get back to him.

Sorry, pob14.

I did, didn't I? I'm getting old and I can't rembember back that far any more . . .

Just kidding. I took seven-eighths of forever to write it in the first place, so I got no complaints.

 

[pob14]

I firmly believe that it's a force. If they had thrown the ball back in and went right to first before the runner made it back it's a force out and by rule no run can score when the 3rd out is enforced on a force play.

It's not a force. See the sticky I wrote. Oh, wait . . . .

Short version: you can NEVER have a force after the batter is retired.

Tagging the base here is an appeal, not a force.

 

[eddieq]

I firmly believe that it's a force. If they had thrown the ball back in and went right to first before the runner made it back it's a force out and by rule no run can score when the 3rd out is enforced on a force play.

You are firmly wrong in your beliefs here, sir. If you read a rulebook, this is not considered a force. That is for EVERY "stick and ball" game there is. MLB, little league, college, all Softball governing bodies as well as sandlot pickup games. Hell, that's the way it is in kickball also.

 

[NCASAUmp]

It's not a force. See the sticky I wrote. Oh, wait . . . .

Short version: you can NEVER have a force after the batter is retired.

Tagging the base here is an appeal, not a force.

Well, not in adult softball, anyway. It's possible in youth ball, however.

 

[TEX1959]

I firmly believe that it's a force. If they had thrown the ball back in and went right to first before the runner made it back it's a force out and by rule no run can score when the 3rd out is enforced on a force play.

OMG....who has a facepalm???

 

[NCASAUmp]

OMG....who has a facepalm???

Joker's on a hiatus, so I'll fill in for him.

How's that?

 

[TEX1959]

ty NCASA
dont make me have to prompt ya next time tho

 

[p17]

I firmly believe that it's a force. If they had thrown the ball back in and went right to first before the runner made it back it's a force out and by rule no run can score when the 3rd out is enforced on a force play.

You've been around long enough that you should know better

 

[irishmafia]

I firmly believe that it's a force. If they had thrown the ball back in and went right to first before the runner made it back it's a force out and by rule no run can score when the 3rd out is enforced on a force play.

Really!! No ****, where do you people come from? You obviously aren't players because even the weakest pretender knows this cannot be a force out. And on top of that, just about every umpire on this site has already stated it was not a force

 

[chiefgator]

We had this call last week in the Women's Armed Forces championships. US Navy vs USAF. The crazy part was it ended up as a triple play! The bases were loaded, and the only runner that tagged properly was the gal from third! All appeals were done as Live Ball appeals. Run counted with no discussion from anyone except some people in the stands.

 

[Gulf Coast Blue]

I firmly believe that it's a force. If they had thrown the ball back in and went right to first before the runner made it back it's a force out and by rule no run can score when the 3rd out is enforced on a force play.

What????? And for all of us umpires I give you this.

Sorry.....just had to do that.

Joel

 

[IrishBlue]

We're not in kansas anymore Toto

That is only in NCAA. My personal feeling is that it is a joke and completely unnecessary. It can also be confusing since it is so similar to the IF reminder.

Maybe our signals are different but the IF reminder we use is right arm on the chest with the hand towards the left shoulder. Fist closed is no outs, one finger is one out. IF removed is a brush down the left arm with a flat palm.

The time play is as described, two fingers held or tapped to the wrist.

I am in Europe so we are bound to have developed some bad habits over the years but at least we don't have Justin bloody Bieber!