Dudley Thunder ZN hard core Pro M

TWmccoy

3DX Connoisseur
I finally got my hands on one of these balls (direct from Tennessee last weekend). The hard core Pro M is what USSSA has developed for use in hot climates and on big fields. After a couple BPs with this ball I feel like I have enough to discuss some observations of it.

First off, the ball itself is very soft (on the outside, at least). It has a regular cover as well as a soft, thick inner layer that feels like foam rubber. Very reminiscent of Thunder Advance or Trump X Rock balls from years past. The seams sit very low, below the surface of the cover. The ball itself is very aerodynamic for that reason.

USSSA had banned multilayer balls at least a decade ago. Why they're reintroducing them now is anyone's guess.

I've hit this ball in weather from about 75-90 degrees with assorted bats (an Easton L2 and a few older, metal Worth ESTs). I wanted to test how hot he BALL was, not the bats. Let's just say, the ball is plenty hot. Despite the soft, thickly padded cover you feel the hardness of the core immediately. I found that any ball struck even halfway decently with backspin would soar high and far easily. The hard core penetrates superbly, and stays in the air way longer than other Pro M's. I'd describe it as "staying hit". When other balls slow down and die this one keeps going.

The hard core performed best when spun. All the longest shots I had with it I almost felt like I got under it a bit. Anything hit on a line wanted to knuckle or side spin.

Top distance with the L2 was about 380'. With the aluminum ESTs it was substantially less. Only having 1 ball meant I could only hit it so many times. As the temp rose to 90+ degrees I noticed a drop off in performance. The hard core was still performing well, but the core definitely did soften.

Let me just say, this hard core ball is LIGHT YEARS better than other Pro Ms or .44 375s. The multilayer cover is a huge advantage over any single layer cover ball. I can only imagine the distance I could get by using a better/hotter bat on it. The hard core is NOT as good as a decent stadium ball, but I'd say it performs like a "bad batch" stadium ball. The 1 stadium ball in my bag was noticeably harder and flew further.

The hard core Pro M is in the upper echelons of ball performance, and it seemed to do well in hot weather (which is why it was designed in the first place). For many places this will be WAY too much ball, and probably shouldn't be used on small fields or in cool/cold climates. This is a ball that will hurt pitchers, damage bats, and make weak hitters look like Bubba Mack. Other than places like Viera during the summer I can't really see a purpose for this ball. Anyone who's ever hit multilayer balls before knows what I'm talking about with all these descriptions.

Fun ball to hit. Struck well, it'll go almost as far as any ball out there. Some of the higher cor or other outlaw balls will outfly it, but the hard core Pro M is a jumper for sure.
 

TWmccoy

3DX Connoisseur
You could hear the difference coming off the bat at the Chatahoochie Major. It was like a gunshot and I'm sure the video did the sound no favors.
On a side note, ever heard of the Gallo by BaamTank? They seem interesting and sound similar.


I found a few of those Bamm Tank balls by Spider at BLD in Vegas last year. I haven't hit them yet. They don't have a multi layer cover, though. No idea what cor/compression they are either.
 

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
Instead of just going with a 47/375 or 325 even, we're going back to a ball they deemed too hot and banned. Sounds just like utrip.

I've finally lost all my Steele's 47/375 sky Hawks, but I wish utrip would look at something else. If they can't commit to the plus at least.
 

EAJuggalo

Addicted to Softballfans
You could hear the difference coming off the bat at the Chatahoochie Major. It was like a gunshot and I'm sure the video did the sound no favors.
On a side note, ever heard of the Gallo by BaamTank? They seem interesting and sound similar.

These were not the balls hit at the Chattahoochee Major. Those were regular E series ProMs. To my knowledge the only place these have been hit in Conference this year was Myrtle Beach and the Smoky. My understanding is that the plan is to use them on bigger fields only. Makes sense at lower levels, but at Conference, these should never be used. The current batch of ProMs is too hot, don't think putting a hotter ball out there is going to help any.
 

TWmccoy

3DX Connoisseur
Instead of just going with a 47/375 or 325 even, we're going back to a ball they deemed too hot and banned. Sounds just like utrip.

I've finally lost all my Steele's 47/375 sky Hawks, but I wish utrip would look at something else. If they can't commit to the plus at least.

Agree. I like a ball that's high cor, low compression. They perform steadily in all weather conditions, and aren't bat-breakingly hard.

I personally like .52 balls a lot. IDK why USSSA never went with those full time. As far as I know, C+ balls are still made and available, but few places use them anymore.

It isn't that I don't LIKE hitting the hard core Pro M, but it's just WAAAYYY too much ball for almost any park in CO. Especially in cold/cool weather. If softball was played on full sized baseball fields regularly I'd say the hard core is fine.
 

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
Agree. I like a ball that's high cor, low compression. They perform steadily in all weather conditions, and aren't bat-breakingly hard.

I personally like .52 balls a lot. IDK why USSSA never went with those full time. As far as I know, C+ balls are still made and available, but few places use them anymore.

It isn't that I don't LIKE hitting the hard core Pro M, but it's just WAAAYYY too much ball for almost any park in CO. Especially in cold/cool weather. If softball was played on full sized baseball fields regularly I'd say the hard core is fine.
Exactly. We all like hitting the hard ball, but at some point someone needs to say this is ridiculous.

We went through this in 2004. The players did the Daniel tosh "I want my NFL players on steroids" but and says just move the fences back, but parks are already disappearing as real estate becomes more valuable. Expanding isn't an option.

And the main reason, the pitcher is already 50' away. They can't just keep pushing them back, and they even moved them closer to the batter this year for safety.

Simultaneously, the inverse is definitely true. Deaden the equipment and you can move the fences in! We don't need or want that, but it could make hitting a gap an actual achievement again.
 

ilyk2win

Addicted to Softballfans
IMO I'd rather have a harder ball and deadened bats than the other way around. Long live the Double Wall era!!!
 

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
IMO I'd rather have a harder ball and deadened bats than the other way around. Long live the Double Wall era!!!
This would be the best, but they'll never go back to metal. I'd love 12" max barrel, 285 or so compression, and a 47/375-325 ball.
 

TWmccoy

3DX Connoisseur
This would be the best, but they'll never go back to metal. I'd love 12" max barrel, 285 or so compression, and a 47/375-325 ball.
That would be a doable combo.

A 300 compression bat will hit decent if you can find the sweetspot.
 

bigwignj

Addicted to Softballfans
Kind of off topic. No way these easton tantrum 1 pieces are passing compression after one tournament. These bats are as good as my 220s that are flirting pass/fail. And I’ve put like 25 swings on it. They are kind of weird though. Like the exit speed isn’t that great. My gennys hit line drives thru the infield way faster and harder but when you get backspin on these things the ball just travels forever. If the Suncoasts from last year are deemed illegal I can’t see how these stay. They are that good. If not, better, and I hate Eastons. I haven’t liked an Easton since the red and grey sxn9? Or w/e from like 10 years ago.
 

ilyk2win

Addicted to Softballfans
This would be the best, but they'll never go back to metal. I'd love 12" max barrel, 285 or so compression, and a 47/375-325 ball.
Not a huge fan of 12" barrels myself, but if that were to get the huge sweet spots back in check then I'd be for it
 

TWmccoy

3DX Connoisseur
Kind of off topic. No way these easton tantrum 1 pieces are passing compression after one tournament. These bats are as good as my 220s that are flirting pass/fail. And I’ve put like 25 swings on it. They are kind of weird though. Like the exit speed isn’t that great. My gennys hit line drives thru the infield way faster and harder but when you get backspin on these things the ball just travels forever. If the Suncoasts from last year are deemed illegal I can’t see how these stay. They are that good. If not, better, and I hate Eastons. I haven’t liked an Easton since the red and grey sxn9? Or w/e from like 10 years ago.

I've seen a lot of stuff on Youtube about Tantrums failing NIW. One was testing at 220 NIW. Many others fail after less than 50 swings.

Not a bat I'd buy. All the USSSA tournies around here do bat testing.
 

TWmccoy

3DX Connoisseur
Little more about the hardcore Pro M.... this ball likes to knuckle, and I find that I have a hard time spinning it. Most times I hit this ball it comes off the bat with sidespin or just knuckles. It results in a lot of lousy hits that don't travel.

When you DO get under this ball a bit it flies for days.
 

D-ROCK13

Well-Known Member
We hit some in a non sanctioned tournament Saturday. They weren't stamped at all just said hard core. Very soft cover, almost squishy feeling. The ball was very good and flew really far, very loud sounding so I'm sure it was hurting bats. Day starred at around 65 degrees and was close to 90 by the afternoon. never noticed much difference in the feel, distance, or sound throughout the day. I thought the ball felt lighter when throwing but could've been in my head. Definitely a better ball in the heat than gold dot extremes and normal pro ms
 

TWmccoy

3DX Connoisseur
We hit some in a non sanctioned tournament Saturday. They weren't stamped at all just said hard core. Very soft cover, almost squishy feeling. The ball was very good and flew really far, very loud sounding so I'm sure it was hurting bats. Day starred at around 65 degrees and was close to 90 by the afternoon. never noticed much difference in the feel, distance, or sound throughout the day. I thought the ball felt lighter when throwing but could've been in my head. Definitely a better ball in the heat than gold dot extremes and normal pro ms

Agree with your assessment. I played a tourny Saturday, and a couple teams had hard core Pro Ms. Those balls definitely make a difference. They come off the bat and stay in the air way longer than normal balls. Our OFs got burned a couple times on liners that zipped over their heads pretty much instantly.

These balls feel surprisingly hard for having such a soft, thick cover.
 

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
They won't let us hit them at a utrip tourney because they're not gold dots.

I know this is just a local issue, but it's crazy to me that I can hit wsl gold dots in a utrip tourney, but not other legal utrip balls. It's like they think all zns are stadiums, but I know they know they're not because they've had to allow them since 2020 when they couldn't get enough gold dots to sell.
 

TWmccoy

3DX Connoisseur
They won't let us hit them at a utrip tourney because they're not gold dots.

I know this is just a local issue, but it's crazy to me that I can hit wsl gold dots in a utrip tourney, but not other legal utrip balls. It's like they think all zns are stadiums, but I know they know they're not because they've had to allow them since 2020 when they couldn't get enough gold dots to sell.

USSSA Gold Dot Pro Ms are pretty blah, and there are two different types of them. One has high seams and is mushy AF. The other has lower seams, a tighter cover, and flies fine.

Here in CO we can use whichever Pro M we want. I see everything from Dudleys, Demarinis, Ghosts, Worths, etc. My team just ordered a couple dozen hard cores. It's going to be a ridiculous HR derby when we use them. The balls are WAY too much for 300' fields in any weather.
 

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
I picked up a dozen of the old syco gold dots online last year. They're too much ball for sure, but I was sick of losing the arms race.

I really just wanted to see if I could actually buy these, and didn't even think about them being utrip and not but gsl. I guess I can use them in the one utrip tournament at a different park next year that sells zns.

I know this isn't exactly utrip's fault, but it's so annoying.
 

TWmccoy

3DX Connoisseur
My team bought 2 dozen hard cores, and we have a tourny this Sat. Should be high 80s to near 90 degrees. I'll post back next week and discuss how it goes. Frankly, I'm expecting a bomb fest.

I feel like these balls will be mainstream before long. They're available at a few places online.
 

Hiltz

Built for comfort
Agree. I like a ball that's high cor, low compression. They perform steadily in all weather conditions, and aren't bat-breakingly hard.

I personally like .52 balls a lot. IDK why USSSA never went with those full time. As far as I know, C+ balls are still made and available, but few places use them anymore.

The .52 was designed for, and adopted by ASA. I'm pretty sure USSSA stayed clear just to be different and not look like they were following ASA's lead.

Here in Canada everything is SPN (Slopitch National) rules. We use USSSA bats with .52/275 balls. There is no shortage of homeruns and you can actually get more than a single season out of a new bat.
 

TWmccoy

3DX Connoisseur
OK. So we busted out a few hard core Pro Ms on Saturday. The results were pretty much as I expected. Fields were 305', and temps were in the 80s. These balls feel like rocks despite the soft outer cover. Guys were putting them out almost comically easily. We hit 10 HR in 1 game, which for my team is a ton.

One of the teams we played also hit hard cores, and they also easily used all their HR (8 + DHH). Well struck balls are almost impossible to field, and hard cores seem to knuckle a lot. I saw some nasty ones that danced all over the place.

Hard cores have fragile covers that get damaged easily. One of our balls hit something and has a huge rip in it, that after being hit 1 time.

Hard core Pro Ms will make anyone look like a good hitter. You might as well just use stadium balls. These are many times better than standard Pro Ms, and I wonder how long it'll take some pitcher to get seriously hurt by one.
 

EAJuggalo

Addicted to Softballfans
They won't let us hit them at a utrip tourney because they're not gold dots.

I know this is just a local issue, but it's crazy to me that I can hit wsl gold dots in a utrip tourney, but not other legal utrip balls. It's like they think all zns are stadiums, but I know they know they're not because they've had to allow them since 2020 when they couldn't get enough gold dots to sell.
Some directors just have a major issue with ZNs and it's not even guys that should. I did IL state a couple weeks ago. USSSA Tournament, primarily GSL rules, any USSSA or GSL ball was allowed except for Vietnam GSL, ZN and Stadiums. Each team was given three balls at the start of the tournament, they were given ZN ProMs. The TD was Jim Pilla, one of the guys that sees ProMs used every weekend at Conference and at all World tournaments.

I have not been on the field with the HardCores yet. I wouldn't be surprised if they get used at Conference Championships in Indianapolis next month which I will be at. I don't think they'll be used at C Worlds that I'm working in October, but nothing will surprise me at this point.
 

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
Some directors just have a major issue with ZNs and it's not even guys that should. I did IL state a couple weeks ago. USSSA Tournament, primarily GSL rules, any USSSA or GSL ball was allowed except for Vietnam GSL, ZN and Stadiums. Each team was given three balls at the start of the tournament, they were given ZN ProMs. The TD was Jim Pilla, one of the guys that sees ProMs used every weekend at Conference and at all World tournaments.

I have not been on the field with the HardCores yet. I wouldn't be surprised if they get used at Conference Championships in Indianapolis next month which I will be at. I don't think they'll be used at C Worlds that I'm working in October, but nothing will surprise me at this point.
It's like the old leagues that banned all mikens five years after the ultras were banned. I know it's not shady here because our director used to play on my team, but a lot of if people don't know him like I do and they all assume it's because it's what they sell. It's not a good look to not allow legal balls except what you are selling.

It'll be interesting to see what's up with the hard core. I still might prefer it to those syco covered Vietnam gsl balls in classic m form.
 

TWmccoy

3DX Connoisseur
Some directors just have a major issue with ZNs and it's not even guys that should. I did IL state a couple weeks ago. USSSA Tournament, primarily GSL rules, any USSSA or GSL ball was allowed except for Vietnam GSL, ZN and Stadiums. Each team was given three balls at the start of the tournament, they were given ZN ProMs. The TD was Jim Pilla, one of the guys that sees ProMs used every weekend at Conference and at all World tournaments.

I have not been on the field with the HardCores yet. I wouldn't be surprised if they get used at Conference Championships in Indianapolis next month which I will be at. I don't think they'll be used at C Worlds that I'm working in October, but nothing will surprise me at this point.

The balls were ridiculous. Check swing HRs, DBOs that were going 400', and absolute missiles through the IF that no one had a chance to field. I think at some point in CO the USSSA state director will have to declare that hard cores are illegal. They're just WAY too much ball. Saturday wasn't even fun.

When the weather gets colder these balls will be massive bat breakers. We all know 240s aren't durable either.
 

jbo911

Super Moderator
Staff member
They're weird in the cold. This is how I began to loathe the classic m. We were hitting micro cell isa 44/375s which are basically hard cores, and people started bringing it classic Ms instead because in the cold they're so loud they thought they were better. They shouldn't have been allowed at all in a 44/375 league, but as is the norm in softball they assumed they were less hot so the umpire allowed them.

The hard cores will get a divot if you endcap them. I rarely used fidgets though so maybe their extra core is different
 

TWmccoy

3DX Connoisseur
They're weird in the cold. This is how I began to loathe the classic m. We were hitting micro cell isa 44/375s which are basically hard cores, and people started bringing it classic Ms instead because in the cold they're so loud they thought they were better. They shouldn't have been allowed at all in a 44/375 league, but as is the norm in softball they assumed they were less hot so the umpire allowed them.

The hard cores will get a divot if you endcap them. I rarely used fidgets though so maybe their extra core is different

One of our hard cores hit something over the fence on a HR and got a huge rip/gouge in the cover. If I knew how to post pics here I'd show it. Ball got hit 1 time, and is now ruined.

BTW, anyone who uses classic Ms over .44 375 ISA X Rocks is an idiot. X Rocks (with microcell) are among the hottest balls I've ever hit. No classic M will touch them for distance.
 

ilyk2win

Addicted to Softballfans
Some directors just have a major issue with ZNs and it's not even guys that should. I did IL state a couple weeks ago. USSSA Tournament, primarily GSL rules, any USSSA or GSL ball was allowed except for Vietnam GSL, ZN and Stadiums. Each team was given three balls at the start of the tournament, they were given ZN ProMs. The TD was Jim Pilla, one of the guys that sees ProMs used every weekend at Conference and at all World tournaments.

I have not been on the field with the HardCores yet. I wouldn't be surprised if they get used at Conference Championships in Indianapolis next month which I will be at. I don't think they'll be used at C Worlds that I'm working in October, but nothing will surprise me at this point.

Interesting to hear.....bc in NJ we hit **** balls that he supplies.....1 per game then once hit out of play, some 3 year old ball that is worse than what's found in most BP buckets. Constant complaints about UTrip balls in NJ. #cheapAF
 
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