generating more distance with less force.

[dunkky]

I've read from here people claiming they clear the fence by swinging easy only using 1/3 of their power. with full power they never have been able to.

people say it's because with easy swing, you essentially achieve better whipping. Whipping is one thing i've been trying to grasp.

I am having a little hard time understanding this, if you are not putting enough force, how do you even generate good amount bat speed? and also, how do you achieve effective whipping of your bat when swinging?

 

[Batalot]

Swinging hard, generally produces a lot of spin, which will ultimately rob the ball of energy. An easy swing produces less junk on the ball thus allowing the ball to have more energy through out the flight of the ball. Things I learned in tennis.

 

[Hiltz]

A lot of rec level players can't swing hard AND make consistent contact. So they get greater distance by swinging easier and hitting the sweetspot vs swinging 100% and missing the sweetspot.

They're not defying physics, they're just making bad contact when they swing hard. And spin absolutely does not rob the ball of energy, one of the keys to hitting for distance is getting good backspin.

 

[jhitman]

Good timing, technique and using all of your body to get proper torque will get you fluid bat speed without feeling you have to kill the ball by swinging hard. Nice slight uppercut swing with good back spin will enable the ball to travel.

 

[TWmccoy]

Swinging hard, generally produces a lot of spin, which will ultimately rob the ball of energy. An easy swing produces less junk on the ball thus allowing the ball to have more energy through out the flight of the ball. Things I learned in tennis.

This isn't necessarily correct. When trying to hit the ball hard and far in softball you want a lot of backspin on the ball. Knuckleballs, topspinners or sidespin shots won't travel nearly as far. Tennis and softball don't really correlate. Swinging harder in softball won't affect how a ball spins, but it will affect how much whip and power you're ultimately able to put on the ball.

Using 1/3 of your swing isn't going to get it done from a power standpoint. I'd say shoot for about 70%. That will enable you to hit the ball hard while still maintaining smooth mechanics. Going for 100% power swings all the time will result in lots of mis hit balls and you'll notice your wrists aren't whipping fluidly. Generally you end up overswinging.

IMO wrist snap is probably the most important aspect of generating smooth power. It won't matter how hard you swing a bat if you can't generate decent snap. Your arms can't provide all the power. I see many guys who technically hit the ball hard, but they use all arms and no wrist. It results in a lot of mis hits and an overall loss of power.

I've seen it mentioned in Ken's hitting videos that wrist snap is the "second tier" snap. You're basically halfway through your swing when wrist snap is supposed to kick in. This will propel the bat through the hitting zone effortlessly, yet explosively. Done right it will feel like you're swinging a flexible fiberglass rod rather than a rigid bat. Explosive snap is a thing of beauty and when you hit the ball it feels like a hot knife slicing through butter.

 

[TWmccoy]

Furthermore, I think a lot of bad hitters need to examine the way they grip the bat. They tend to throttle it, which makes their wrists tense and unable to snap during a swing. The bat should be gripped out in the fingers rather than deep in the palm. You should almost pretend the bat is a living animal you don't want to crush to death. You don't want it to escape either, however.

 

[dunkky]

I lied. 50% is more accurate number and this is the thread i was referring to.

http://forums.softballfans.com/threads/overswinging.1320112/

Mccoy, I watched that Ken's video. Although it makes sense, i am just not sure how i can effectively apply the second tier snapping. It sounds like i have to provide secondary push while swing is in motion.

by the way, if you read that thread, they are not including mis-hits. when hit square, they seem to get better result with less force in general.

 

[Hiltz]

IMO wrist snap is probably the most important aspect of generating smooth power. It won't matter how hard you swing a bat if you can't generate decent snap. Your arms can't provide all the power. I see many guys who technically hit the ball hard, but they use all arms and no wrist. It results in a lot of mis hits and an overall loss of power.

Furthermore, I think a lot of bad hitters need to examine the way they grip the bat. They tend to throttle it, which makes their wrists tense and unable to snap during a swing. The bat should be gripped out in the fingers rather than deep in the palm. You should almost pretend the bat is a living animal you don't want to crush to death. You don't want it to escape either, however.

Lots of guys who don't squeeze the bat hard while they're in their stance will tense up and squeeze midway through a 100% swing. It's difficult to torque your hips and shoulders hard while maintaining a relaxed grip, but high level hitters do just that.

Aside from wrists, a lot of people lose their bottom half when they overswing. I see a lot of big guys especially just stomp their lead foot down and arm-swing with zero hip rotation.

 

[Hiltz]

Mccoy, I watched that Ken's video. Although it makes sense, i am just not sure how i can effectively apply the second tier snapping. It sounds like i have to provide secondary push while swing is in motion.

You don't do it consciously. If you do everything right in the early stages of your swing (weight transfer, hip rotation, barrel lag, etc), by the time you get close to contact, the barrel will accelerate past your hands and whip itself essentially.

That's why the overlap grip works; your wrists and hands are in a much weaker position to apply force, but they are freer to rotate and let the bat whip around on its own.

by the way, if you read that thread, they are not including mis-hits. when hit square, they seem to get better result with less force in general.

Put a ball on a tee and take a 50% swing with good mechanics. Now repeat the test, but lock your arms and wrists and swing 100%. The ball will go nowhere, even though it felt like you were trying harder.

Bat speed is a combination of a)force applied and b)efficient mechanics. If you sacrifice one for the other, you get sub-par results. The key is to get to the point where you can apply a lot of force while still maintaining good mechanics.

 

[Batalot]

Not arguing that back spin doesnt keep your ball up.. it will, but eventually, the spin dissipates and the ball will eventually just start floating and fall.. the real reason why these guys hit these balls so far.. and with backspin, is that, they crush the ball. You don't hit the backspin correctly, it will just be a massive dying quail pop up a screaming grounder or a lazy liner if you don't hit it hard enough. I haven't played softball or baseball as long as you all, but, i"ve played other racquet sports that heavily utilize backspins and pretty familiar with it's characteristics and I doubt the flight physics are any different.

Not to say, you don't want any backspin, cause you do.. perhaps, enough that it keeps the ball in the air, but not enough where there is more spin than carry.

 

[Bow Commander]

...I see a lot of big guys especially just stomp their lead foot down and arm-swing with zero hip rotation.

This. I see it all the time. It's also the story of my life. Working on it though.

 

[Country469]

It literally does not matter how you get the barrel to the ball, just do so consistently and good things happen with this 2019 magic equipment ****

 

[Batalot]

All I know from swinging experiences is what @Country469 just said and..always ACCELERATE. start slow if you have to but end up faster than you started.

 

[TWmccoy]

Lots of guys who don't squeeze the bat hard while they're in their stance will tense up and squeeze midway through a 100% swing. It's difficult to torque your hips and shoulders hard while maintaining a relaxed grip, but high level hitters do just that.

Aside from wrists, a lot of people lose their bottom half when they overswing. I see a lot of big guys especially just stomp their lead foot down and arm-swing with zero hip rotation.

I agree with all of this. When you're swinging 100% you naturally choke the bat. To swing 100% is to tense basically the whole body up. You definitely lose lower half effectiveness when you're trying to muscle the ball with brutal swings.

When everything's working it should feel like you aren't imparting any brute force at all. You want to swing hard, but do it in such a way that you keep everything loose. If I'm feeling tense, I pretend like I'm trying to whip the ball rather than bludgeon it. If that makes any sense. Treat the bat like a whip instead of a club. That is how wrist snap comes naturally.

 

[TWmccoy]

You don't do it consciously. If you do everything right in the early stages of your swing (weight transfer, hip rotation, barrel lag, etc), by the time you get close to contact, the barrel will accelerate past your hands and whip itself essentially.

That's why the overlap grip works; your wrists and hands are in a much weaker position to apply force, but they are freer to rotate and let the bat whip around on its own.



Put a ball on a tee and take a 50% swing with good mechanics. Now repeat the test, but lock your arms and wrists and swing 100%. The ball will go nowhere, even though it felt like you were trying harder.

Bat speed is a combination of a)force applied and b)efficient mechanics. If you sacrifice one for the other, you get sub-par results. The key is to get to the point where you can apply a lot of force while still maintaining good mechanics.

I agree fully with the point about the overlap grip. I've used it for years. You can still end up swinging stiffly with an overlap grip, but its much harder. Occasionally the bottom hand will get too assertive and you won't feel great wrist action. When the overlap grip is working well you won't even have to try to snap the bat. It'll lag naturally and come whisking around quickly as your hands reach full extension. Now, as for swinging 50% with good mechanics vs. 100% with brute force, I can still hit the ball further with 100% effort than I can with 50%. However, the 100% swing has a greater margin for error and there will be energy lost in the process. The 50% swing has a place for me, but not when I'm going for distance.

My overall theory on this stuff is that too many hitters use swings that don't impart energy efficiently. They swing hard, but they have no wrist snap or hip movement. I see guys all the time who swing the bat viciously hard, but end up hitting topspin liners because they're too rigid. I still assert that grip is hugely important here. If your grip is messed up, the whole swing will be messed up.

 

[TWmccoy]

It literally does not matter how you get the barrel to the ball, just do so consistently and good things happen with this 2019 magic equipment ****

This is true. Today's bats can cover up horrible swings. All you need to succeed is a little bat speed. Doesn't matter how sloppy you are about it. Anyone who really needs the ultimate test of how well their swing is performing should go play at USSSA's new complex in Viera. If you're off even a little bit down there you'll hit like crap.

 

[Chubby_43]

Not arguing that back spin doesnt keep your ball up.. it will, but eventually, the spin dissipates and the ball will eventually just start floating and fall.. the real reason why these guys hit these balls so far.. and with backspin, is that, they crush the ball. You don't hit the backspin correctly, it will just be a massive dying quail pop up a screaming grounder or a lazy liner if you don't hit it hard enough. I haven't played softball or baseball as long as you all, but, i"ve played other racquet sports that heavily utilize backspins and pretty familiar with it's characteristics and I doubt the flight physics are any different.

Not to say, you don't want any backspin, cause you do.. perhaps, enough that it keeps the ball in the air, but not enough where there is more spin than carry.

I have seen many guys who constantly try to cut the ball. That is the only way they swing.. When this connect its beautiful... But more often they miss and miss badly, and it looks horrible.. Some pitches are easier to cut than others...

Aside from wrists, a lot of people lose their bottom half when they overswing. I see a lot of big guys especially just stomp their lead foot down and arm-swing with zero hip rotation.

Agreed.. They try to utlize their brut strength instead of total body power.

 

[TWmccoy]

Here's a vid of me hitting from a year ago. I'm using lousy bats and not even swinging hard. The wrist snap is there.

 

[jhitman]

I agree TW. I think you should swing at roughly 85% of your max. If you swing at 100% likely your balance will suffer. Also, agree on the wrist snap, although if you swing with everything in good order the wrist snap should come automatically without trying to force it. A lot of times when I see people forcing their wrists to snap it slows down their bat at impact. I also use the overlap grip and never really think about the wrist snap as I let it come naturally. If your timing, mechanics, balance are all there you will hit the ball with great force no matter what your size. I am 61 and still hit the ball out of the park like I did when I was in my 30's. I had rather poor form back in the day and relied more on strength. I'm only 160 pounds now so I need for everything to be right to get the distance I did back in the day. So mechanics, balance, bat speed, wrist snap, timing are all things I consistently work on.

 

[Hiltz]

I've had a lot of success in recent years by concentrating on starting my swing out slow, then accelerating into the ball. Think less than 50% until about halfway, then ramp up to 80-90%. It's almost magic when you time the acceleration perfectly, it feels like the bat is weightless.

Regarding equipment; the best thing that happened to my swing was playing in a wood bat league last year. We use low COR balls and you need to do everything right to hit them far. I'd have multiple HR nights with composites, but I went all last season in that wood bat league without hitting a single ball out. I think I hit one ball off the fence on the fly and a handful that bounced off the fence. But swinging wood all summer and adjusting to the tiny sweetspot and reduced pop made composites feel like cheating. I'd recommend playing in a wood league, or at least using wood in bp, to everyone.

 

[Hiltz]

A lot of times when I see people forcing their wrists to snap it slows down there bat at impact.

I find that thinking about my hands just causes everything in my swing before the snap to go to ****.

 

[Country469]

I have yet to see anyone on here mention that their swing should probably be situational and determined by what you intend to do at the plate......... all this talk like its an unlimited home run game and its swing away time. Must be nice, but not real softball.

 

[saintrules]

The likelihood of your mechanics failing as a result of trying to force the ball yard is pretty high. The best hitters I've ever witnessed in both baseball and softball remain fluid throughout the entirety of the swing, consistency is key.

Also, with how hot these damn bats are these days, the amount of force and bat speed that can actually generate a bomb is much lower, the equipment is doing half the battle for you.

Swing steady, swing fluid, and don't give your stick a death grip.

 

[TWmccoy]

I've had a lot of success in recent years by concentrating on starting my swing out slow, then accelerating into the ball. Think less than 50% until about halfway, then ramp up to 80-90%. It's almost magic when you time the acceleration perfectly, it feels like the bat is weightless.

Regarding equipment; the best thing that happened to my swing was playing in a wood bat league last year. We use low COR balls and you need to do everything right to hit them far. I'd have multiple HR nights with composites, but I went all last season in that wood bat league without hitting a single ball out. I think I hit one ball off the fence on the fly and a handful that bounced off the fence. But swinging wood all summer and adjusting to the tiny sweetspot and reduced pop made composites feel like cheating. I'd recommend playing in a wood league, or at least using wood in bp, to everyone.

Hitting with wood bats will do nothing but help your swing. It forces you to pay attention closely and find the barrel consistently. Hitting low cor balls with wood bats sucks. It isn't any fun and the balls feel like bricks. If you hit .52 300s with wood they'll actually travel decently. I don't hit with wood bats super often, but I do it enough to stay sharp. I agree everyone ought to keep a wood bat around and use that in BP rather than their composites.

Overlap grip has been talked pretty much to death on here, but I really feel like anyone who wants to step their game up a bit and hit the ball harder ought to at least try it. Start with a 2 finger overlap and try to work your way to full overlap. I'll generally use the full overlap in HR situations and the 2 finger overlap in base hit situations. The 2 finger provides a touch more bat control.

 

[dunkky]

i have been doing the full overlap the whole year. generated 8 bombs. 7 with xxl and 1 with dc41. Love it.
But last two bp sessions, i went back to pinky drop and two finger overlap. seems like that's the sweet spot for me for both power and control. I think i am going to try that during the winter league and this Thursday in play off. In the winter league, i'll be swinging ssr2 and Og omega, both 28oz balance. Both kills classic Ms and will not break in cold weather.

 

[Normy]

Sit on a slider then send it up the middle.

Seriously though, good advice in this thread. The only other relevant information I will add is... absolutely nothing. Merry Christmas!

 

[Bow Commander]

The only other relevant information I will add is...COMBAT. Merry Christmas!

 

[Hiltz]

I have yet to see anyone on here mention that their swing should probably be situational and determined by what you intend to do at the plate......... all this talk like its an unlimited home run game and its swing away time. Must be nice, but not real softball.

I was talking about mechanics and hitting hard in general, I don't really change much other than trajectory and attempting to hit the ball square vs cutting it. That said, a properly executed inside-out Judy punch can be more satisfying than a HR in the right circumstance.

Hitting low cor balls with wood bats sucks. It isn't any fun and the balls feel like bricks. If you hit .52 300s with wood they'll actually travel decently.

We're using .40/400 Gray Dots because the league is a bunch of geezers who are terrified of change. 270' shots are rare and it's only big bruisers hitting them consistently. Meanwhile 160# guys are shattering bats left and right. We proposed going to .52's but that got shot down quick; "52 is way higher than 40, people will get hurt!"

Sit on a slider then send it up the middle.

Just wait til you see that black dot...

 

[tonys1]

We're using .40/400 Gray Dots because the league is a bunch of geezers who are terrified of change. 270' shots are rare and it's only big bruisers hitting them consistently. Meanwhile 160# guys are shattering bats left and right. We proposed going to .52's but that got shot down quick; "52 is way higher than 40, people will get hurt!"

.52 is yellow, it looks stupid so we'll stick to .40/375 - our LD.

 

[Hiltz]

.52 is yellow, it looks stupid so we'll stick to .40/375 - our LD.

That's awesome.

"A real softball should be dirt-coloured by the 3rd inning."