ASA Gorilla Grip

[Hlafast816]

9+ years of coaching fastpitch I have never felt as wronged as I do tonight. My Varsity pitchers and travel ball pitchers have been using Gorilla Grip Gold since we were told it was legal at our coaches clinnic. Long story short in our semi-final game were were three outs away from run ruling the tournament host when they brought it to the attention of the umpire my pitcher was touching something on her shorts. My pitcher was asked what it was she replied Gorilla grip. The behind the plate ump said it was good the field ump was unsure and the the UIC was called he declared the substance was illegal and we were to forfeit the game. Documents were produced VIA Ipad and smart phone showing it was legal he would not even look at it. He threatened to have me arrested when I vehemently requested he read up on what he was uninformed of. Then quickly retreated to his vehicle to head for another tournament location. We (team parents) as a collective began a information barrage to the tournament director. We are legal and right on all counts but he hid behind the UIC decision is final. The tournament director then began telling the other teams how he wished someone would have caught us cheating earlier as all our games shouldn't count. I now have a prospect college pitcher labeled as a cheater because she was using a legal substance and the ignorant group of tournament directors and UIC that can't admit when they were wrong. What recourse do I have?

 

[BretMan]

Dumb stuff happens...and a lot of dumb stuff happened here.

Gorilla Gold is, of course, an approved drying agent and is legal. Any UIC worth his salt should know that.

Even if it was illegal, the prescribed penalty is not a forfeit. The penalty for applying a foreign substance to the ball is a player ejection.

Kind of late to do anything about it now. But this is such an egregious misinterpretation of the rules that you might want to contact your district and state ASA commissioners, just to let them know that they have some umpires and tournament directors that need a little education.

 

[irishmafia]

Dumb stuff happens...and a lot of dumb stuff happened here.

Gorilla Gold is, of course, an approved drying agent and is legal. Any UIC worth his salt should know that.

It is, but curious how he would know what it is if the substance was on her shorts?

Even if it was illegal, the prescribed penalty is not a forfeit. The penalty for applying a foreign substance to the ball is a player ejection.

If done after being warned, otherwise just an IP.

 

[Hlafast816]

No the cloth is tucked under her shorts in front because she had no pockets. The ump asked to see it she gave it to him told him "it is Gorilla grip I've been through this before and it is legal" She would go to it facing the ump wipe on the side and then step on the mound. Mind you the team that called this out has their 14U pitcher using it. The High School coach knew it was legal as well and and later came up with she concealed it. More unseemly actions were conducted in the championship game as well. The Mayville fastpitch (Wisconsin) organization is a classless organization with the most awful tournament I have ever had the misfortune to attend.

 

[irishmafia]

No the cloth is tucked under her shorts in front because she had no pockets. The ump asked to see it she gave it to him told him "it is Gorilla grip I've been through this before and it is legal" She would go to it facing the ump wipe on the side and then step on the mound. Mind you the team that called this out has their 14U pitcher using it. The High School coach knew it was legal as well and and later came up with she concealed it. More unseemly actions were conducted in the championship game as well. The Mayville fastpitch (Wisconsin) organization is a classless organization with the most awful tournament I have ever had the misfortune to attend.

WTF does HS have to do with this? And if you are going to sling ****, you better get your own **** in order. If you pitcher was using Gorilla Grip, she was illegal.

 

[jsam21238]

WTF does HS have to do with this? And if you are going to sling ****, you better get your own **** in order. If you pitcher was using Gorilla Grip, she was illegal.

Irish you know it is an angry parent... It was this product she was using... http://www.gorillagold.com/

 

[jsam21238]

Rule 6 Sec. 6a does state that she can't have the drying agent on her person and must be on the ground behind the pitcher's plate.

What recourse do you want? They aren't going to replay the tournament from that point. Can you prove any actual monitary loss or damages?

 

[irishmafia]

Rule 6 Sec. 6a does state that she can't have the drying agent on her person and must be on the ground behind the pitcher's plate.

Actually, that only refers to the resin, an approved drying agent is to be kept in the player's pocket.

What recourse do you want? They aren't going to replay the tournament from that point. Can you prove any actual monitary loss or damages?

None. The tournament UIC made either a bad or uninformed decision. It is a shame, but it certainly isn't an excuse to go around badmouthing a tournament in general.

 

[irishmafia]

Irish you know it is an angry parent... It was this product she was using... http://www.gorillagold.com/

I know that and this isn't the only place this whine has been posted. But I don't care what the discussion is, don't point fingers at others if your own **** isn't in order.

 

[jsam21238]

Actually, that only refers to the resin, an approved drying agent is to be kept in the player's pocket.



None. The tournament UIC made either a bad or uninformed decision. It is a shame, but it certainly isn't an excuse to go around badmouthing a tournament in general.

Ok then I'll bring up a question here... If the player doesn't have a pocket, are they allowed to conceal it on their person elsewhere?

 

[Hebrew Hacker]

9+ years of coaching fastpitch I have never felt as wronged as I do tonight. My Varsity pitchers and travel ball pitchers have been using Gorilla Grip Gold since we were told it was legal at our coaches clinnic. Long story short in our semi-final game were were three outs away from run ruling the tournament host when they brought it to the attention of the umpire my pitcher was touching something on her shorts. My pitcher was asked what it was she replied Gorilla grip. The behind the plate ump said it was good the field ump was unsure and the the UIC was called he declared the substance was illegal and we were to forfeit the game. Documents were produced VIA Ipad and smart phone showing it was legal he would not even look at it. He threatened to have me arrested when I vehemently requested he read up on what he was uninformed of. Then quickly retreated to his vehicle to head for another tournament location. We (team parents) as a collective began a information barrage to the tournament director. We are legal and right on all counts but he hid behind the UIC decision is final. The tournament director then began telling the other teams how he wished someone would have caught us cheating earlier as all our games shouldn't count. I now have a prospect college pitcher labeled as a cheater because she was using a legal substance and the ignorant group of tournament directors and UIC that can't admit when they were wrong. What recourse do I have?

None. The tournament UIC made either a bad or uninformed decision. It is a shame, but it certainly isn't an excuse to go around badmouthing a tournament in general.

What about the bolded above? Granted, we're only hearing one side of the story, but why shouldn't he badmouth the tourney if the above is true?

 

[NCASAUmp]

Ok then I'll bring up a question here... If the player doesn't have a pocket, are they allowed to conceal it on their person elsewhere?

It says that the approved drying agent (Gorilla Gold) must be in the pitcher's pocket.

If this is a travel team, there's no reason why someone couldn't get this pitcher the proper pants to wear out on the field. It's like an umpire forgetting to buy the proper plate pants to accommodate their leg guards - there are some things you just don't let slide.

 

[spos21ram]

It says that the approved drying agent (Gorilla Gold) must be in the pitcher's pocket.

If this is a travel team, there's no reason why someone couldn't get this pitcher the proper pants to wear out on the field. It's like an umpire forgetting to buy the proper plate pants to accommodate their leg guards - there are some things you just don't let slide.

I agree they should have gotten her a pair of team shorts with pockets but the penalty for not having it in a pocket should not be a forfeit. That's not even the penalty for an illegal substance. The ump should have told her to remove it and resume the game.

 

[NCASAUmp]

I agree they should have gotten her a pair of team shorts with pockets but the penalty for not having it in a pocket should not be a forfeit. That's not even the penalty for an illegal substance. The ump should have told her to remove it and resume the game.

I agree. First offense, illegal pitch and warning. Second offense, tossed from the game.

Again, protest, protest, protest.

 

[jsam21238]

It says that the approved drying agent (Gorilla Gold) must be in the pitcher's pocket.

If this is a travel team, there's no reason why someone couldn't get this pitcher the proper pants to wear out on the field. It's like an umpire forgetting to buy the proper plate pants to accommodate their leg guards - there are some things you just don't let slide.

Ok... That's what I was getting at. So since it was not in a pocket, it then became an illegal substance correct.

 

[NCASAUmp]

Ok... That's what I was getting at. So since it was not in a pocket, it then became an illegal substance correct.

Well, it shouldn't be allowed on the field. I'm not sure how she'd have the Gorilla Gold on her shorts.

 

[baldgriff]

No the cloth is tucked under her shorts in front because she had no pockets.

Apparently it was tucked under the shorts...

 

[irishmafia]

Ok then I'll bring up a question here... If the player doesn't have a pocket, are they allowed to conceal it on their person elsewhere?

I wouldn't have a problem with it. The idea is to keep it some place that it is least likely to get involved with a play, which is way a rosin bat is kept behind the pitcher.

 

[irishmafia]

What about the bolded above? Granted, we're only hearing one side of the story, but why shouldn't he badmouth the tourney if the above is true?

He is referring to the same incident. Umpires and UIC are not going to accept, or should not accept, data from spectators.

How would you like it if the umpire asked the fan standing behind the fence if you (F3) pulled your foot early on what seemed to be an obvious out and then changed the call?

I'm not defending the ruling as I believe it to be absolutely wrong. But all we are seeing here is an AA taking his whine to his daughter's game.

And what is the AA response to not getting what they want? Flaming people associated with the tournament. Yeah, that's a good way to get what you want......NOT!

 

[Hebrew Hacker]

He is referring to the same incident. Umpires and UIC are not going to accept, or should not accept, data from spectators.

How would you like it if the umpire asked the fan standing behind the fence if you (F3) pulled your foot early on what seemed to be an obvious out and then changed the call?
I'm not defending the ruling as I believe it to be absolutely wrong. But all we are seeing here is an AA taking his whine to his daughter's game.

And what is the AA response to not getting what they want? Flaming people associated with the tournament. Yeah, that's a good way to get what you want......NOT!

The bolded is judgement...this situation is not. I'd have no problem with an umpire asking a spectator for a an ASA list of approved equipment/substances.

I was more referring to the TD telling people that he wished they had gotten caught sooner as all their games shouldn't have counted. I can live with umpires and TD's making mistakes, but to me, that crosses a line.

 

[Hlafast816]

I am a high school Varsity coach I have been in contact with the ASA WIAA and NFHS all have deemed the incident legal and will be speaking to all those involved. We did protest and the tournament director wouldn't allow it. Mind you he is the assistant coach of the team we were forfeiting to. We asked to have the UIC return to the park from the one 2 miles away to rule on the protest he arrived three hours later. Nothing was handled correctly and I want to make sure it never happens again including having my athletic director add him to the do not use list with the WIAA.

 

[SouthernOhioNSA]

Was this a summer travel ball tournament or a high school game/tournament? Curious to why you would contact the state of Wisconsin high school org and the national federation of high schools if this was a travel ball tournament incident?

 

[NCASAUmp]

Was this a summer travel ball tournament or a high school game/tournament? Curious to why you would contact the state of Wisconsin high school org and the national federation of high schools if this was a travel ball tournament incident?

I agree. I'm seeing at least 2 different organizations listed here, and you seem pretty hellbent on crucifying this umpire.

 

[oppo]

Having the people running the tournament also putting a team in the tournament is a recipe for trouble. I see no problem with how the umps on the field handled the situation. The problems arose when those higher up got involved. After the way this was handled by someone connected to the other team, I can certainly understand the OP's anger and frustration. I have also seen way too many crooked individuals running leagues and tournaments to find the story anything but easy to believe.

 

[irishmafia]

The bolded is judgement...this situation is not. I'd have no problem with an umpire asking a spectator for a an ASA list of approved equipment/substances.

And I'm talking about anyone outside of the fences being involved

I was more referring to the TD telling people that he wished they had gotten caught sooner as all their games shouldn't have counted. I can live with umpires and TD's making mistakes, but to me, that crosses a line.

TD is a people pleaser that is going to sway with the popular position depending on where and among whom s/he is standing. But I don't care, the TD has no say here until and unless the TD is involved with the Protest Committee.

 

[irishmafia]

Having the people running the tournament also putting a team in the tournament is a recipe for trouble. I see no problem with how the umps on the field handled the situation. The problems arose when those higher up got involved. After the way this was handled by someone connected to the other team, I can certainly understand the OP's anger and frustration. I have also seen way too many crooked individuals running leagues and tournaments to find the story anything but easy to believe.

This is a fact. Even when hosting a fundraiser, our team would play until it came to DE and then step aside and allow the teams who paid to play go for the championship.

BTW, this is also one reason ASA does not allow anyone with a commissioners title to umpire in championship play, no matter how qualified.

 

[Hlafast816]

Udate on the incident: For those of you that thought she did anything wrong. You all are inncorrect. The ruling from the state ASA official and head of WIAA was the call was completely in the wrong. Gorilaa Gold may be used and kept on the pitchers person not just the pocket. The head UIC has called myself and my pitcher to apologize for the terrible call. He admitted to many mistakes in making his judgement and regretts doing so. Alfred Sharpe has proved he is a bigger / better man and I respect him. The Tournament director on the other hand shifted all blame to the UIC never apologized for spreading the word as fast as he could. I will never play another tournament in that town again, yet would have no reservation in playing a game officiated by Al Sharpe.

 

[spos21ram]

Udate on the incident: For those of you that thought she did anything wrong. You all are inncorrect. The ruling from the state ASA official and head of WIAA was the call was completely in the wrong. Gorilaa Gold may be used and kept on the pitchers person not just the pocket. The head UIC has called myself and my pitcher to apologize for the terrible call. He admitted to many mistakes in making his judgement and regretts doing so. Alfred Sharpe has proved he is a bigger / better man and I respect him. The Tournament director on the other hand shifted all blame to the UIC never apologized for spreading the word as fast as he could. I will never play another tournament in that town again, yet would have no reservation in playing a game officiated by Al Sharpe.

Gotta admire someone when they admit they made a mistake. These people involved need to look back on this and make the proper adjustments next time something like this happens. Sounds like this could have been easily avoided if the UIC, Umpire, and Director knew the rules.

 

[Hammerin' Hank]

if you have gone through allegations like this before, it would be wise to keep some sort of written documentation on hand at all your games, just in case it happens again. Calling up a web page on an ipad is different then handing an official a hard copy of said rule.

 

[Hlafast816]

The UIC has been in contact with me and is very upset with how the case was brought to him by his field umpire. He had no idea it was the top of the fifth and we were leading 9-0. The opposing team brought it to the attaention of the field umpire he had the problem the plate umpire was ready to play as he had no problem and said nothing was on the ball. Feild umpire insisted we need to have the UIC make the call at the urging of the host teams fans and coachs. Forfeit was entered into the conversation by the tournament director. My girls were sent of the field the UIC came back after consulting with the tournament director and declared a 7-0 nothing forfeit. While talking with the umpire when he called to apologize he was very upset broke down a few times and when he heard what lead up to the him being called he was furious. He has fired his field umpire, informed the tournament director he will never be coming back and is very concerned about how the lack of information given to him by the tournament director gave the appearance of home town officiating. The topper is when looking for contact information to notify the team we forfeited to they were wrong I found the tournament directors name listed as a coach for the team..............umpires make mistakes and sometimes huge ones, When someone has the courage to admit it that says something about their character of which the organization that put on this tournament has none.