Any How do you deal with an umpire like this?

[EdFred]

A good pitcher doesn't have to. You find where the ceiling is, and you find where the umpire is calling the strikes.

There's nothing that you can say or do to get the umpire to expand their zone. Their zone is their zone, and a good umpire won't change it.

I wasn't asking to get them to expand or change their zone. They wouldn't even let me know where it was. The same pitch to the same guy in the same at bat, one was flat, one was "deep". Even the batter was shaking his head and laughing - it was that blatantly one sided. Or are you saying an umpire never shows bias?

 

[MaverickAH]

Bottom line is this is all a matter of judgment. Maybe hers is off, but it's still hers. It is not up to you to "deal" with the umpire.

True, as long as her judgement is equal & consistant. At that point, it's up to the teams involved to adjust.

And if another umpire were to apologize for a team for my performance, I might have a few choice words for that "partner" throwing me under the bus like that.

True!

Move past it, man. If she was having a bad day, then she was having a bad day. But to whine and complain that she was "biased" against your team is just plain childish.

Yes, any ump can have a bad day (or a bad moment or inning!) but it's totally disingenuous of you to suggest that there's no such thing as a biased ump! They are out there & I've known a few in my day!

That wasn't the point. The point was, how do I address the umpire courteously to figure out what I have to do besides serve up BP?

The best way to handle it is to calmly approach the umpire before or after the game or if during a game, during an inning break. Out of earshot of everyone, respectfully ask them, "What is your strike zone?". Gauge their response & the manner in which they give it. This will give you insight into whether you can continue the dialogue or whether to leave it alone. Whatever you do, don't be pushy!

 

[NCASAUmp]

Yes, any ump can have a bad day (or a bad moment or inning!) but it's totally disingenuous of you to suggest that there's no such thing as a biased ump! They are out there & I've known a few in my day!

Sure, they're out there, but the OP has zero proof of this. He's just going by the fact that he didn't get the calls he wanted, and that's not enough to accuse an umpire of bias. Poor judgment, maybe, but not bias. Stomping your feet and crying that the umpire has it in for you with no shred of proof is just childish.

I've been accused of being biased against teams before, and the irony is that in reality, I actually LIKE calling their games.

The best way to handle it is to calmly approach the umpire before or after the game or if during a game, during an inning break. Out of earshot of everyone, respectfully ask them, "What is your strike zone?". Gauge their response & the manner in which they give it. This will give you insight into whether you can continue the dialogue or whether to leave it alone. Whatever you do, don't be pushy!

Sure, ask, but ask nicely. And if they give the textbook answer, you'd be wise to drop it. Otherwise, you're just arguing balls and strikes, and you won't last long if that keeps up.

 

[NCASAUmp]

I wasn't asking to get them to expand or change their zone. They wouldn't even let me know where it was. The same pitch to the same guy in the same at bat, one was flat, one was "deep". Even the batter was shaking his head and laughing - it was that blatantly one sided. Or are you saying an umpire never shows bias?

Probably because we hear nothing but whining about the strike zone day in, day out.

 

[EdFred]

Sure, they're out there, but the OP has zero proof of this. He's just going by the fact that he didn't get the calls he wanted, and that's not enough to accuse an umpire of bias. Poor judgment, maybe, but not bias. Stomping your feet and crying that the umpire has it in for you with no shred of proof is just childish.

I've been accused of being biased against teams before, and the irony is that in reality, I actually LIKE calling their games.



Sure, ask, but ask nicely. And if they give the textbook answer, you'd be wise to drop it. Otherwise, you're just arguing balls and strikes, and you won't last long if that keeps up.

Proof, as in video camera proof? No. I don't have that. But I would say that the other umpire approaching me after the game is rather compelling evidence. I didn't argue or complain during the game, because whenever I've seen that happen the strike zone gets smaller for the complainant. The only comments I made to her were questions, and was about two pitches, asking where it was/why it was called a ball. Who knows, maybe my catcher was saying stuff I couldn't hear.

Probably because we hear nothing but whining about the strike zone day in, day out.

I've never whined about it, and can't recall ever telling an umpire their zone is wrong, or too small, or whatever. I will ask why/where it was that it was called a ball. All I want is consistency between the two teams. In this case it was obviously bad enough her partner sought me out after the game to apologize. It's got to be pretty bad when that happens.

 

[NCASAUmp]

Proof, as in video camera proof? No. I don't have that. But I would say that the other umpire approaching me after the game is rather compelling evidence. I didn't argue or complain during the game, because whenever I've seen that happen the strike zone gets smaller for the complainant. The only comments I made to her were questions, and was about two pitches, asking where it was/why it was called a ball. Who knows, maybe my catcher was saying stuff I couldn't hear.

Maybe the other umpire was trying to smooth things over. Maybe the other umpire has got it in for her. Maybe the other umpire... who knows?

If all she's doing is calling balls/strikes without any other commentary, you've got no justification for calling her biased. All you've got is a gut feeling.

Has she ever called your games before? If not, why would she even have it in for you? She's got no history with you or your team.

I've never whined about it, and can't recall ever telling an umpire their zone is wrong, or too small, or whatever. I will ask why/where it was that it was called a ball. All I want is consistency between the two teams. In this case it was obviously bad enough her partner sought me out after the game to apologize. It's got to be pretty bad when that happens.

Never said you were whining, just saying that we get a lot of whining!

 

[EdFred]

Has she ever called your games before? If not, why would she even have it in for you? She's got no history with you or your team.

I never had her before, but after the game the catcher informed me that last year he bitched her out for her strike zone when he played with another team.

 

[NCASAUmp]

I never had her before, but after the game the catcher informed me that last year he bitched her out for her strike zone when he played with another team.

37 posts later, the truth comes out.

 

[EdFred]

37 posts later, the truth comes out.

Yeah, but now here's the problem. She's obviously carrying something over from last year. Because he said nothing to her at all until the last inning. And even though he's not going to play with us again, she obviously holds grudges. So how do I deal with this going forward because she obviously can't be unbiased, and I'm going to assume we're ****ed the rest of the year because of it.

 

[NCASAUmp]

Yeah, but now here's the problem. She's obviously carrying something over from last year. Because he said nothing to her at all until the last inning. And even though he's not going to play with us again, she obviously holds grudges. So how do I deal with this going forward because she obviously can't be unbiased, and I'm going to assume we're ****ed the rest of the year because of it.

Kick your catcher in the nuts and tell him to get off his ass and apologize to the umpire for his poor attitude.

 

[EdFred]

Kick your catcher in the nuts and tell him to get off his ass and apologize to the umpire for his poor attitude.

He won't be playing with us anymore. But since he was on a different team from last year, and she carried that over to a new team, I can only assume the same thing will be done from now on. So, best way to approach it next game without it making it sound like I know she's got it out for us?

 

[bomboi]

37 posts later, the truth comes out.

lulz....x2

 

[EdFred]

lulz....x2

Well, I didn't know about it until after the game. So, I had no idea either. Not that it changes things - still need to know how to deal with a biased umpire.

 

[NCASAUmp]

He won't be playing with us anymore. But since he was on a different team from last year, and she carried that over to a new team, I can only assume the same thing will be done from now on. So, best way to approach it next game without it making it sound like I know she's got it out for us?

Just be friendly with her and let her know that you kicked the catcher to the curb. Something along the lines of, "hey, Blue... I found out later that my catcher used to give you a hard time. I'm sorry about that. He's gone, and he won't bother you anymore." Something like that will go a long way with me.

Trust me, we want the games to go as smoothly as you do. We've got enough drama on the field, and the vast majority of us don't want to add any more. If you show her that there won't be any of the old drama, she'll give you a fair shake.

 

[EdFred]

Just be friendly with her and let her know that you kicked the catcher to the curb. Something along the lines of, "hey, Blue... I found out later that my catcher used to give you a hard time. I'm sorry about that. He's gone, and he won't bother you anymore." Something like that will go a long way with me.

Trust me, we want the games to go as smoothly as you do. We've got enough drama on the field, and the vast majority of us don't want to add any more. If you show her that there won't be any of the old drama, she'll give you a fair shake.

I ref football and basketball, so I know about being on the receiving end of the complaints. However, I have never carried any bias over to the next play let alone the next game, or worse the next year when it comes to making the call. So, I don't get why someone would do that.

 

[joncon]

Buck: Softball World in Muskegon. NSA qualifier last weekend.

"Too deep" doesn't convey anything when the ball hit its apex at 8' (6-10 arc) and crossed the plate at the rib cage. She didn't say it was high, she said it LANDED too deep. Doesn't matter where it lands, it's where it crosses.

I hear this argument all the time and you are wrong. It is of course affected slightly by the height but you cant say it doesn't matter where it lands.

Where it lands is in direct relation with to it's height as it crosses the batters body.

When a legally delivered pitch lands behind the plate at about 12", it's going to be a strike, no doubt about it. When it lands 36" behind the plate, it's going to be a ball. Anywhere between is up for debate.

Too deep = over the top. Common sense.

Wait....this is recreational SPSB were are discussing. Common sense seems to get set aside.


And....an 8' pitch across my ribcage isn't going to be called a strike unless I whiff. I'm swingin at that MOFO! If it did land, it would land between 12" and 24" deep. Gravity is pretty consistant.

So how do I deal with this going forward because she obviously can't be unbiased, and I'm going to assume we're ****ed the rest of the year because of it.

With that attitude, you are ****ing yourself.

Let it go and start over.

 

[Gamble]

^^ You assume all pitches are delivered at the same, very consistent speed.

 

[spos21ram]

37 posts later, the truth comes out.

That's unprofessional of any umpire to be bias against certain players or teams because of an argument.

 

[MaverickAH]

That's unprofessional of any umpire to be bias against certain players or teams because of an argument.

You are absolutely correct!

Human nature aside, it's something that any decent umpire should temper themselves against. Do things happen sometimes? Sure they do! Umpires, after all, are just human beings.

I remember telling one manager (who was actually a nice guy off the field but he & his team would always take an adversarial position with umpires before the game even started) that, "You can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar". He refused to listen & he & his team continued on a self fullfilling prophecy path.

 

[NCASAUmp]

That's unprofessional of any umpire to be bias against certain players or teams because of an argument.

I don't disagree, and I don't deny that umpires like that exist, giving the rest of us a bad name.

I just have a problem with someone accusing an umpire of bias without any real foundation other than not getting the calls they want.

 

[spos21ram]

I don't disagree, and I don't deny that umpires like that exist, giving the rest of us a bad name.

I just have a problem with someone accusing an umpire of bias without any real foundation other than not getting the calls they want.

A lot of times the teams who think they are getting screwd don't realize the amount of times the other team is getting bad calls too.

 

[eddieq]

It's been said and bears repeating - Umpires are only right 50% of the time. One team always disagrees with the call that was just made.

 

[bigcountry77]

i am not an ump, but i was helping out during a backyard coed tournament and had a girl start cussing at me when i called strke 3. she said the ball hit 3 feet behind the plate, but i told her that if she would of swung her bat she would of hit the ball as it passed thru the "Strike Zone" not hit a spot on the ground. she just turned and walked back to the dugout.

 

[EdFred]

It's been said and bears repeating - Umpires are only right 50% of the time. One team always disagrees with the call that was just made.

Not really. 95+% of the time I agree with the umpire's calls, and have to tell our guys to quiet down when they got the call right - yes, even when it goes against us. The <5% I don't agree, the most I will say is "I think that might have went the other way," or "it looked different from where I was." I never say they got the call wrong during the game.

 

[TEX1959]

The op's decription of how tight his strike zone was, versus the other team's strike zone,
there should be NO question of bias, it was blatantly obvious.
Did she just have a bad inning only when the op was pitching???
I would think not.
If this went on more than a couple of innings, I would have the TD over to see this
and fix it.

 

[Joker]

haven't posted this in a while, but i know you'll take it like a man ed

 

[EdFred]

That pic always cracks me up. It can never be posted enough.

 

[oppo]

The vast majority of the time, players make too big of a deal over what is a slight difference in judgement and sometimes the ump just has a crazy strike zone for both teams but on rare occasions umpires either have it in for one team or show favoritism to the other and they can greatly effect the outcome of a game. I can think of 2 such occasions that happened when I was playing. The first was a 1 pitch winter league and with a particular team, I had to put the ball on a tee for them and if they didn't swing, blue called it a ball. After a while, they started watching good pitches left and right. It was ridiculous. Not long after that, guess who I saw playing on that same team on a different night? The other was last fall at a big tournament. The umpire couldn't count the number of outs and wouldn't even listen to his partner who could. Apparently, my pointing out the correct number of outs offended his god complex because he did not call another strike the last 2 innings, not 1. My control was great. I went down 3-1 many times in that game and previous games and was always able to hit strikes on the corners when needed. Now, even meatballs belt high over the center of the plate were being called balls. Even players from the other team knew exactly what was going on and were telling the others not to swing at anything because the ump would call the pitch a ball no matter what. We actually had the other team in run rule and had to flip flop but our big lead started disappearing in a hurry. Luckily enough of their guys refused to watch a meatball that we were able to barely hold on.

Situations like this are rare but they do happen and when it does, it is very obvious based on the calls alone. You don't always have to know the back story to know what is going on.

Imo, if the ump is truly screwing you over, you are wasting your time talking to that ump. Either talk to the LD or TD and ask them to keep an eye on the situation or find someplace to play that has better umps.

 

[oppo]

It's been said and bears repeating - Umpires are only right 50% of the time. One team always disagrees with the call that was just made.

This made me lol. I know it is intended as a joke but on close plays it tends to be pretty true.

I am one of the exceptions to the rule but I actually agree and disagree with umps about the same number of times regardless of which way the call goes. There are also plenty of times when I am waiting with curiosity to see what the call is, especially on balls and strikes, because it so close that I don't really have an expectation of what the ump is going to call.

 

[Fin09]

I stopped reading after "one that causes us to lose a tourney"