Any How do you deal with an umpire like this?

[EdFred]

One that causes us to lose a tourney?

OK, not really, it was us not hitting at all that caused us to lose, however, I have never seen a plate umpire this bad. She (I suppose I could stop there and would explain everything, but) had this "strike zone" that was just all over the place, inconsistent, and by all appearances had it out for me for some reason. Which was odd, because we were chatting between innings during the previous game, and she was completely professional and cordial. I basically had to pitch BP to the other team because anything on the outer or inner 1/3 of the plate was wide, anything I tossed over 7' was "too deep" (even if it landed 6-12" behind the plate) and anything under 7' was "too flat" even when it landed in the same spot. The other pitcher however, anything remotely close was called a strike. Had one come in 2' over our guy's head and land 4' deep - "strike." I am never going to argue balls and strikes, because everyone has their own zone, and didn't argue this game, except ask why a pitch was a ball when it was even considered a strike by the batter. It was so bad the base umpire came up to me after the game and apologized for her performance.

How do you properly/professionally/courteously deal with an umpire who is blatantly biased?

 

[MaverickAH]

It's obvious to me that the other pitcher also talked to her during the previous game & he has better "game" than you!

 

[Gamble]

You do what any good player does -- adapt.


As an aside, I could easily see a batter standing at the very front of the box getting a strike called on a pitch 2' over their head. As with all softball measurements, part of this is also an assumption that 2' is probably more like an actual 6".

 

[EdFred]

No. It wasn't 6"...at the least it was 20" and he was standing even with the plate - probably even more towards the back. I was in the dugout, so it was VERY easy to see where it crossed and how high. I couldn't tell you if it was inside or outside, but height and depth wasn't arguable from where I was at. I'm not going to argue or complain about 6" high, but within 6" of being 2 feet over his head while even with the plate I'm going to question. As I said it was so blantant and bad the base umpire apologized after the game, so it obviously wasn't just me.

My original question still stands however.

And how do you adapt when the only pitch that's going to be called a strike has to fit into a 6" square?

 

[NCASAUmp]

Speaking of bias... I noticed how you're the hero of your own story.

Just sayin'.

 

[tmpnick16]

How would I handle that? Probably give a couple dirty looks to begin with... Then in between pitches take an extremely long time to throw the next one. Perhaps roll a couple balls in and throw some to the backstop overhand... The next go about 7 feet up e first base line and throw soft toss to the batter.
I would make sure to get tossed by the 3rd inning so there would be plenty of time to locate her car in the parking lot ;-]

 

[dttruax]

One that causes us to lose a tourney?

OK, not really, it was us not hitting at all that caused us to lose, however, I have never seen a plate umpire this bad. She (I suppose I could stop there and would explain everything, but) had this "strike zone" that was just all over the place, inconsistent, and by all appearances had it out for me for some reason. Which was odd, because we were chatting between innings during the previous game, and she was completely professional and cordial. I basically had to pitch BP to the other team because anything on the outer or inner 1/3 of the plate was wide, anything I tossed over 7' was "too deep" (even if it landed 6-12" behind the plate) and anything under 7' was "too flat" even when it landed in the same spot. The other pitcher however, anything remotely close was called a strike. Had one come in 2' over our guy's head and land 4' deep - "strike." I am never going to argue balls and strikes, because everyone has their own zone, and didn't argue this game, except ask why a pitch was a ball when it was even considered a strike by the batter. It was so bad the base umpire came up to me after the game and apologized for her performance.

How do you properly/professionally/courteously deal with an umpire who is blatantly biased?

One of my biggest peeves, especially if I'm pitching, since there's nothing (in ASA in particular) that mentions "too deep" in reference to the strike zone.

 

[EdFred]

Speaking of bias... I noticed how you're the hero of your own story.

Just sayin'.

I wouldn't say walking 8 guys in 3 innings and serving up 17 runs of BP makes me a hero. Protagonist perhaps, but not a hero.

But seriously how do you address the situation without having the 6" strike zone go to 3" or less?

 

[bomboi]

U shoulda told her your balls were a one-night special only

 

[joncon]

The thing to do is constantly complain.....maybe every other pitch. Also, delay the game as much as possible between pitches and escalate to insults, pushing the edge of ejection.


I see pitchers do this all the time so it must be the thing to do.

 

[gotigersgo]

There's no such thing as 'deep' in softball unless the league uses a mat. It's absurd that many umpires don't know this.

 

[EdFred]

The "too deep" was her words, not mine. I know the pitch (if over the plate) is going to be high, a strike, low, or illegal due to too much or not enough arc. But according to her it was "too deep" even though it crossed through the zone.

 

[TEX1959]

you simply ask the umpire to give you his/her definition of a strike.
then you know what THAT umpires strike zone is.
if they can not give you the definition of a strike, then that might be protestable??
hey umps, can yall elaborate on that???

Or like i told the umpire that drew a line about 10 inches behind the plate and said
that was a strike, i asked him again what the definition of a strike was and he just
points to the line, the batter coming up drew lines up to the edge of the plate, then
he said, yea, thats a strike. Thats when i told him he needed to go back to umpire
school and walked back to the pitchers plate as he mumbles something that i could
not hear. My wife behind the backstop told him that he might want to ask me the
definition, and that it would not be a line in the dirt.

 

[ImminentDanger]

But seriously how do you address the situation without having the 6" strike zone go to 3" or less?

In spite of the total ignorance of what a strike definition REALLY IS --- It's a GOD-COMPLEX with some umps ---- there's nothing you __CAN__ do other than protest to the LD ---- Which in most cases (especially if you lost) will be chalked up to Sore Loser Attitude.....

My only other suggestion might be to bring along a Camcorder to record the attrocious performance of the ump.... that might be better than nothing....

%%%

 

[tmpnick16]

I'm not sure why people constantly complain about "too deep" not being in the rule book.... You know what it means right? It conveys the message correct?

 

[buckster]

(Local question) Where did this story occur, Ed?

Honestly the only thing you can do... is what you did - serve it up, don't argue, and move on.

If other teams in your league also find the same fate, someone will do some grumbling to the TD. And if the TD asks her partner(s) about these complaints and those concerns are found valid, perhaps she stops getting assignments for other tournaments run by the same TD.

 

[EdFred]

Buck: Softball World in Muskegon. NSA qualifier last weekend.

"Too deep" doesn't convey anything when the ball hit its apex at 8' (6-10 arc) and crossed the plate at the rib cage. She didn't say it was high, she said it LANDED too deep. Doesn't matter where it lands, it's where it crosses.

 

[EdFred]

you simply ask the umpire to give you his/her definition of a strike.
then you know what THAT umpires strike zone is.
if they can not give you the definition of a strike, then that might be protestable??
hey umps, can yall elaborate on that???

Or like i told the umpire that drew a line about 10 inches behind the plate and said
that was a strike, i asked him again what the definition of a strike was and he just
points to the line, the batter coming up drew lines up to the edge of the plate, then
he said, yea, thats a strike. Thats when i told him he needed to go back to umpire
school and walked back to the pitchers plate as he mumbles something that i could
not hear. My wife behind the backstop told him that he might want to ask me the
definition, and that it would not be a line in the dirt.

I did that exact thing with the ump in one of the previous games. I generally try and push the ceiling as high as I could, and he rung up one of our guys on a ball that never got above our batters head - and he's 6'1". So I asked him before I took the mound next inning why that one was a strike and he said "I'm 5'6" if it gets to my head, I consider that close enough." I said no problem, I just never throw it there to get that call, and he laughed. But he was consistent with that call for that game and the next game we had him. I told our guys that's what he said, and we played accordingly. I've got zero issue with an ump giving that flat pitch if they are consistent.

 

[pob14]

She (I suppose I could stop there and would explain everything, but)

It does explain quite a bit about you, actually. Some of the best umpires I've ever seen are women.

 

[MaverickAH]

There's no such thing as 'deep' in softball unless the league uses a mat. It's absurd that many umpires don't know this.

I can guarantee you that the percentage of players who don't know is way higher than the percentage of umpires!

If I had a dollar for every batter I've seen point to a spot on the ground when questioning a strike call, I could retire tomorrow!

• You stand in front of the plate, I project you to a position even with it.
• You stand in back of the plate, I project you to a position even with it.
• Legal pitch, across the plate, front knee to back shoulder.
• Where the pitch ultimately lands is inconsequential.

 

[EdFred]

It does explain quite a bit about you, actually. Some of the best umpires I've ever seen are women.

You don't pickup on sarcasm well, do you?

 

[spos21ram]

I can't stand when other USSSA umps say "too deep"...there's no such thing..just make the signal it was over the shoulder if that is why it as a ball. But a USSSA ump should never say too deep. It can land 4 feet behind the plate as long as it crosses through the zone.

 

[ImminentDanger]

It can land 4 feet behind the plate as long as it crosses through the zone.

This is an INCOMPREHENSIBLE CONCEPT to EVERY UMP in my ASA league ...

INVISIBLE MAT BALL is the umps game --- It is hilarious (and so sad) to see the umpire STARE AT THE DIRT for a second before determining whether to call the pitch a strike or a ball..... OR ---- DEEP!!

%%%

 

[NCASAUmp]

You're 50 feet away, and usually backpedaling after the pitch. You really want me to believe you can tell where the pitch went better than the person standing stationary just a few feet away?

Stop fussing and pitch the ball.

 

[EdFred]

You're 50 feet away, and usually backpedaling after the pitch. You really want me to believe you can tell where the pitch went better than the person standing stationary just a few feet away?

Stop fussing and pitch the ball.

Again, when the other umpire comes up and apologizes for her performance, I might not be so far off in my assessment of her calls. I know, it's like the blue line - no cops, er umpires, could ever be wrong.

 

[NCASAUmp]

Again, when the other umpire comes up and apologizes for her performance, I might not be so far off in my assessment of her calls. I know, it's like the blue line - no cops, er umpires, could ever be wrong.

Bottom line is this is all a matter of judgment. Maybe hers is off, but it's still hers. It is not up to you to "deal" with the umpire.

And if another umpire were to apologize for a team for my performance, I might have a few choice words for that "partner" throwing me under the bus like that.

Move past it, man. If she was having a bad day, then she was having a bad day. But to whine and complain that she was "biased" against your team is just plain childish.

 

[EdFred]

Bottom line is this is all a matter of judgment. Maybe hers is off, but it's still hers. It is not up to you to "deal" with the umpire.

And if another umpire were to apologize for a team for my performance, I might have a few choice words for that "partner" throwing me under the bus like that.

Move past it, man. If she was having a bad day, then she was having a bad day. But to whine and complain that she was "biased" against your team is just plain childish.

That wasn't the point. The point was, how do I address the umpire courteously to figure out what I have to do besides serve up BP?

 

[ImminentDanger]

Bottom line is this is all a matter of judgment. Maybe hers is off, but it's still hers. It is not up to you to "deal" with the umpire.

And if another umpire were to apologize for a team for my performance, I might have a few choice words for that "partner" throwing me under the bus like that.

Move past it, man. If she was having a bad day, then she was having a bad day. But to whine and complain that she was "biased" against your team is just plain childish.

'A matter of judgment' yes --- but in order to judge properly & reasonably, you have to know the ACTUAL RULES from which you are judging....

If I take my car (which I only drive for leisure) into the mechanic, pay him to fix it, but it's not done right ---- Is it 'Childish' to complain about it??

If I take my TV into the shop to be repaired --- Is it 'Childish' to complain about it not being fixed right?? just because it is used for leisure??

The UMPS are the only paid folks on the field ---- the rest of us are paying to play ---- The UMPS are BEING PAID TO WORK!!! They are expected to do the best job possible --- Impartial, Consistent, By-the-Rules --- They have agreed to do this for MONEY!

You can grab any player from the field to provide BAD UMPIRING for free....
Those who are paid should provide QUALITY for the money....

%%%

 

[NCASAUmp]

That wasn't the point. The point was, how do I address the umpire courteously to figure out what I have to do besides serve up BP?

A good pitcher doesn't have to. You find where the ceiling is, and you find where the umpire is calling the strikes.

There's nothing that you can say or do to get the umpire to expand their zone. Their zone is their zone, and a good umpire won't change it.

 

[NCASAUmp]

'A matter of judgment' yes --- but in order to judge properly & reasonably, you have to know the ACTUAL RULES from which you are judging....

If I take my car (which I only drive for leisure) into the mechanic, pay him to fix it, but it's not done right ---- Is it 'Childish' to complain about it??

If I take my TV into the shop to be repaired --- Is it 'Childish' to complain about it not being fixed right?? just because it is used for leisure??

The UMPS are the only paid folks on the field ---- the rest of us are paying to play ---- The UMPS are BEING PAID TO WORK!!! They are expected to do the best job possible --- Impartial, Consistent, By-the-Rules --- They have agreed to do this for MONEY!

You can grab any player from the field to provide BAD UMPIRING for free....
Those who are paid should provide QUALITY for the money....

%%%

You're completely missing my point.