Any How much time is spent on the strike zone at umpiring clinics?

[LORDV8R]

The reason I ask this is the strike zone that gets called most of the time TO ME doesn't meet the rulebook definition(mostly USSSA). I know this is a judgement call but I was just wondering if it was talked about at the clinics and maybe how much time is spent on it.

Case #1

The batter is standing with their back foot in line with the middle of the plate and the pitch is just below the batters chin. Is this a strike? By rule, I see this as a strike but no umpire does. If the ball was below the back shoulder with the batter technically in front of the plate shouldn't the ball be within the strike zone at the plate?

Case #2

The ball crosses the plate within the strike zone and the catcher catches the ball about knee high(kneeling catcher). Shouldn't this be a strike? I see this called maybe 1 out of 10 times.

 

[RDD15]

In case #1, you are making the same mistake that poor umpires make, and you seem to be complaining about. Just because the pitch is at the batter's chin, does not tell us whether the pitch is a strike or not. You are taking a snapshot of where the ball is at one particular point outside the strike zone, and trying to determine whether the ball will/did enter the strike zone. The "at the chin" that you are using is pretty much the same thing as the ump calling balls and strikes largely based on where the ball lands in relation to the plate. If the pitch is pretty flat, after the ball passes at the batter's chin, it could very well still be a ball. If the pitch has some arc to it, then it could be a strike.

In case #2, you already know the answer, you are just complaining about a bad habit that a lot of umps seem to have, in calling most pitches that the catcher catches "deep". If the ball passes through the strike zone, it is a legal pitch, and does not hit the plate, then it is a strike regardless of the catcher catching the ball on the fly or on the bounce. But, if your catcher is getting them on the fly on possible strikes, you need to have a conversation with your catcher that he needs to stop catching them in the air. It may be wrong, but lots of umps will call "deep" if a pitch hits the catcher before the ground.

 

[chiefgator]

The strike zone has been a main topic of discussion at every clinic I have ever attended.

Both are strikes as described, as you seem to be aware. I agree that neither are called as often as they should be.

 

[johnsonrod]

for the USSSA guys,

i just started playing usssa recently and could never understand how a ball that is only 3'6" off the ground at its max height, and lands just barely beyond the straight portion of the plate (to the side of the angled portion, ie in the "dirt triangle" behind HP) can be a strike, unless the batter is 3' tall.

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x is where the ball lands, the ...... are for editing purposes or else it aligns left and ignores spaces

 

[LORDV8R]

@Rdd15 To clarify the ball is coming down from it's arc and is not flat or excessive speed. Is it a complaint? To a degree it is but the umps still make the same calls year after year. I just basically wanted to know if the associations adressed this at their clinics.

@Chiefgator I agree they should be strike but I know you just basically have to adjust to the ump and hope they are consistent.

 

[hookumsnivy]

for the USSSA guys,

i just started playing usssa recently and could never understand how a ball that is only 3'6" off the ground at its max height, and lands just barely beyond the straight portion of the plate (to the side of the angled portion, ie in the "dirt triangle" behind HP) can be a strike, unless the batter is 3' tall.

_____
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.\... /x
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x is where the ball lands, the ...... are for editing purposes or else it aligns left and ignores spaces

Just to be clear, in USSSA the max height of a ball is 10 feet off the ground (any higher and it is supposed to be called a ball unless the batter swings). Therefore, it is very likely to be a strike if there is significant arc on the ball. Keep in mind that if your front knee is 30 inches (2.5 feet) high, then the ball can pass over the front of the plate at 30 inches and bounce right behind the plate like you described.

 

[bamaboy1626]

what I can't understand is how umpires can understand is that 3' to 10' doesn't mean 3 foot off the ground.... it's 3' from the release and when the pitcher is releasing the ball from their thigh, the ball is going to have to reach a minimum height of 6' and then it will have to come down about 2 feet from it's max height to become a strike.

 

[NCASAUmp]

If you go to an umpire's clinic, one phrase that is commonly repeated is, "you can't teach judgment."

I believe it.

You can, however, teach an umpire how to get into the best position possible to improve their potential to make good judgment calls. This goes for fair/foul, safe/out, ball/strike.

Most clinics don't focus on trying to get umpires to call balls and strikes. After all, each umpire will naturally have some variation in their strike zone from another umpire.

They will, however, focus on getting the umpire into the slot correctly with their head at the right level and tracking the ball without exaggerating their head movement.

The strike zone comes with time, patience, and good observations by the umpire. I'll be honest, when I'm behind the plate and a pitch is coming in, I'm imagining how they would have to try to hit the ball if they were standing at the plate. I've called enough games and seen enough pitches to feel confident in my ability to judge the pitch relative to the batter.

A rookie umpire needs time to develop that same "feel" for the pitch. Be patient with them. It's easy when you guys in the dugout are looking from the side, but it's NOT easy when you're looking at the pitch coming almost straight at you.

 

[LORDV8R]

If you go to an umpire's clinic, one phrase that is commonly repeated is, "you can't teach judgment."

I believe it.

You can, however, teach an umpire how to get into the best position possible to improve their potential to make good judgment calls. This goes for fair/foul, safe/out, ball/strike.

Most clinics don't focus on trying to get umpires to call balls and strikes. After all, each umpire will naturally have some variation in their strike zone from another umpire.

They will, however, focus on getting the umpire into the slot correctly with their head at the right level and tracking the ball without exaggerating their head movement.

The strike zone comes with time, patience, and good observations by the umpire. I'll be honest, when I'm behind the plate and a pitch is coming in, I'm imagining how they would have to try to hit the ball if they were standing at the plate. I've called enough games and seen enough pitches to feel confident in my ability to judge the pitch relative to the batter.

A rookie umpire needs time to develop that same "feel" for the pitch. Be patient with them. It's easy when you guys in the dugout are looking from the side, but it's NOT easy when you're looking at the pitch coming almost straight at you.

Thanks for a the insight. I can say that I do tend to let alot of close plays/ball and strike call go with newer umps than I do with the veterans. I guess the biggest thing of all is consistency. Once I know and accept the umps strike zone then I have nothing to complain about later in the game. And for God's sake, move from behind the plate. Once again to all thanks for answering my question.

 

[12th Man]

Answer: Who the **** cares! It's underhand

 

[USSSA]

the zone is a judgement call, so whey spend so much time on it

 

[johnsonrod]

Just to be clear, in USSSA the max height of a ball is 10 feet off the ground (any higher and it is supposed to be called a ball unless the batter swings). Therefore, it is very likely to be a strike if there is significant arc on the ball. Keep in mind that if your front knee is 30 inches (2.5 feet) high, then the ball can pass over the front of the plate at 30 inches and bounce right behind the plate like you described.

reread my post, im asking about the most flattest pitch possible, one that is 3'6" off the ground. around here, most of the pitchers never throw anything over 5' and often release the ball barely off the ground with 2 strikes as to throw as flat as possible (which is often less than 3'6") bc the umps call the pitch i described earlier a strike.

 

[NEWBILL]

Thanks for a the insight. I can say that I do tend to let alot of close plays/ball and strike call go with newer umps than I do with the veterans. I guess the biggest thing of all is consistency. Once I know and accept the umps strike zone then I have nothing to complain about later in the game. And for God's sake, move from behind the plate. Once again to all thanks for answering my question.

I think you hit the nail on the head.. As an umpire I try my best to be consistent..

As far the 3' from release rule.. They need to get rid of that wording.. It is hardly ever called and even harder to judge..

 

[VF500Racer]

In USSSA, you better swing at the flat pitches b/c 80-90% of time,
they will be called strikes if they land right behind plate.
Only times they will be called balls is when pitcher
try to sneak a semi-fast pitch in and it goes deep or super flat.
UMPs usually won't be able to respond fast enough
on the low/flat/fast to call Illegal b/f you swing at it.
It's just a rule of thumb if you are pitching/hitting at tournaments.

 

[goro25]

Plate & mat > strike zone. No (well, almost no) arguing about strikes and balls just the pitch height.

 

[txbullets]

Plate & mat > strike zone. No (well, almost no) arguing about strikes and balls just the pitch height.

LOL that would/should never work in utrip as there is no such think as deep. Throw one 3'6" and have it hit the plate then it never crosses over the front knee then by definition it is not a strike. Also there will be a lot of pitchers hurt if you allow a flat pitch to hit the plate and be a strike. I hate the plate being a strike even in ASA. A lot more middle shots

 

[chiefgator]

In USSSA, you better swing at the flat pitches b/c 80-90% of time,
they will be called strikes if they land right behind plate.
Only times they will be called balls is when pitcher
try to sneak a semi-fast pitch in and it goes deep or super flat.
UMPs usually won't be able to respond fast enough
on the low/flat/fast to call Illegal b/f you swing at it.
It's just a rule of thumb if you are pitching/hitting at tournaments.

No such thing as deep and you do not call illegal in Utrip. IJS

 

[VF500Racer]

Sorry. "FLAT! DEEP! Put an ARC on it! "
are what the Red(s) said.

So what would you use to call the
half-fastpitch balls? The ball
is obviously coming in too fast
to be slowpitch. Pitcher is
flicking really hard from wrist.

 

[LORDV8R]

Sorry. "FLAT! DEEP! Put an ARC on it! "
are what the Red(s) said.

So what would you use to call the
half-fastpitch balls? The ball
is obviously coming in too fast
to be slowpitch. Pitcher is
flicking really hard from wrist.

To me that would be excessive speed and a ball.

 

[goro25]

LOL that would/should never work in utrip as there is no such think as deep. Throw one 3'6" and have it hit the plate then it never crosses over the front knee then by definition it is not a strike. Also there will be a lot of pitchers hurt if you allow a flat pitch to hit the plate and be a strike. I hate the plate being a strike even in ASA. A lot more middle shots

If you take away the strike zone and use a plate & mat by definition it is a strike. One of my leagues is USSSA and they use a plate and mat with a 4' - 12' height rule. This is our first season in this league, but I haven't seen any problems. A pitcher may occasionally sneak a low one in that hits the front of the plate but not very often.