ASA I.F. Fly Question

[MH785]

Bases loaded with one out. Batter pops up somewhere between the pitcher and catcher right on the first base line. Pitcher almost runs into runner and ultimately lets the ball drop. All runners advance, batter makes it to first, ump calls time. Second baseman says "Should't that be infield fly?" Ump says "Yeah it should have. Batter is out." I was coaching first and ask if you can make that call after the play is over and his response: "That is an automatic call. I don't have to say anything. It's not a judgement call, its automatic. Runner is out." Ball stayed fair the entire time, never went foul or even close.

Thoughts? Just a league game so I don't really give a ****, just want to know who's right.

 

[jsam21238]

Yes it is correctable. Move on.

 

[NCASAUmp]

Yes it is correctable. Move on.

^^^^
This.

 

[irishmafia]

Bases loaded with one out. Batter pops up somewhere between the pitcher and catcher right on the first base line. Pitcher almost runs into runner and ultimately lets the ball drop. All runners advance, batter makes it to first, ump calls time. Second baseman says "Should't that be infield fly?" Ump says "Yeah it should have. Batter is out." I was coaching first and ask if you can make that call after the play is over and his response: "That is an automatic call. I don't have to say anything. It's not a judgement call, its automatic. Runner is out." Ball stayed fair the entire time, never went foul or even close.

Thoughts? Just a league game so I don't really give a ****, just want to know who's right.

When the IF is in effect, the batter is out. The umpire failing to make the declaration in a timely fashion does not negate the rule or it's application.

I'm still trying to figure out how the pitcher got anywhere near a runner.

 

[USA All the wAy]

I'm still trying to figure out how the pitcher got anywhere near a runner.

Extremely bad base running is my guess.

 

[baldgriff]

Where did the ball end up?? Most of those Infield pop-ups between the P and the C end up spinning backwards and go foul.

 

[BigSam]

It's not a judgement call, its automatic.

That is nonsense. The ball has to be a routine play by an infielder. The conditions are automatic, but that doesn't mean you don't have some work to do. Also, umpire needs to make that call. Nice and loud, as soon as he can determine it is a routine play.

Yes it is correctable. Move on.

If the ump is going to say "yes that was routine but I was daydreaming" I'm okay with the correction. We all make mistakes. If it was "I don't have to call that because you should know/it is automatic/smurfs have blue tails" then I'm not so okay with it. LRN2UMP.

In fact, knowing the difference between IFR and not IFR is pretty much the difference between umpires and players. That and what the actual strike zone is. Making us all look bad. SIGH.

 

[irishmafia]

That is nonsense. The ball has to be a routine play by an infielder. The conditions are automatic, but that doesn't mean you don't have some work to do. Also, umpire needs to make that call. Nice and loud, as soon as he can determine it is a routine play.




If the ump is going to say "yes that was routine but I was daydreaming" I'm okay with the correction. We all make mistakes. If it was "I don't have to call that because you should know/it is automatic/smurfs have blue tails" then I'm not so okay with it. LRN2UMP.

In fact, knowing the difference between IFR and not IFR is pretty much the difference between umpires and players. That and what the actual strike zone is. Making us all look bad. SIGH.

All that aside, an IF is an IF and is still an IF whether the umpire calls it or not.

 

[rhound50]

Where did the ball end up?? Most of those Infield pop-ups between the P and the C end up spinning backwards and go foul.

This my question, if the ball landed on the line good chance it spun foul unless it was touched first. The other part of this is did the batter/runner interfear with the pitcher trying to make a play? If yes than it should have been a dead ball batter is out and runners return to the base they were when the play began.

We had a play in a tournament a couple weeks ago where something very similar to this happened. Bases loaded no outs, batter hits a popup on the 1st baseline. Umpire calls IFF, the pitcher lost the ball in the sun, the ball dropped and spun foul. The umpire at first tried to say that the batter was still out because the ball landed fair. Luckily there was a good umpire there who helped correct the call. Batter got a 2nd life and hit a bases clearing double, big difference.

That is nonsense. The ball has to be a routine play by an infielder. The conditions are automatic, but that doesn't mean you don't have some work to do. Also, umpire needs to make that call. Nice and loud, as soon as he can determine it is a routine play.

If the ump is going to say "yes that was routine but I was daydreaming" I'm okay with the correction. We all make mistakes. If it was "I don't have to call that because you should know/it is automatic/smurfs have blue tails" then I'm not so okay with it. LRN2UMP.

In fact, knowing the difference between IFR and not IFR is pretty much the difference between umpires and players. That and what the actual strike zone is. Making us all look bad. SIGH.

I think the umpire is saying he made a mistake. The whole point of the IFF is to not allow the defense to get a cheap double play. If the umpire doesnt call it because everyone knows the rule than how as a batter am I supposed to know the difference between "You know the rule" and "it was not a routine play for the fielder." As a runner I am never assuming IFF is being called unless I hear it. On this play if it is not called, as soon as the ball hits the ground I'm running, I'm making the assumption that in the umpires judgment it was not IFF and I'm running cause I'm forced at the next base.

 

[eddieq]

This my question, if the ball landed on the line good chance it spun foul unless it was touched first. We had a play in a tournament a couple weeks ago where this happened, IFF was called the pitcher lost the ball in the sun, the ball dropped and spun foul. The umpire tried to say that the batter was still out because the ball landed fair. Luckily there was a good umpire there who helped correct the call. Batter got a 2nd life and hit a bases clearing double, big difference.

That's why the mechanic on any IF that is near the line is to declare "Infield Fly If Fair". Even if they don't say, "If fair" though, it's another one of those things that's fixable.

 

[BigSam]

That's why the mechanic on any IF that is near the line is to declare "Infield Fly If Fair". Even if they don't say, "If fair" though, it's another one of those things that's fixable.

^ this. Chewing on "INFIELD FLY IF FAIR!" is tedious, but that's the right call. If the defense doesn't want the ball to go foul, they should catch it. To be specific... it doesn't MATTER if they catch it for the IFR. Just the "if fair" part.

 

[MH785]

I'm still trying to figure out how the pitcher got anywhere near a runner.

It was a pop up, only about 20' high. It was hit between the pitcher and catcher, but real close to the first base line. The timing worked so the runner was running by as the pitcher was going to make the play. He thought it was the catcher and turned to avoid running into him. Ball lands in fair territory and stops right there on the ground in fair. Never went fowl.

Agree we all make mistakes and I did not argue it at all. Ump is a good dude and a player. Just wanted to know what's right. Thanks for all the answers!!

 

[irishmafia]

It was a pop up, only about 20' high. It was hit between the pitcher and catcher, but real close to the first base line. The timing worked so the runner was running by as the pitcher was going to make the play. He thought it was the catcher and turned to avoid running into him. Ball lands in fair territory and stops right there on the ground in fair. Never went fowl.

Agree we all make mistakes and I did not argue it at all. Ump is a good dude and a player. Just wanted to know what's right. Thanks for all the answers!!

So you really meant the batter-runner.

 

[MH785]

So you really meant the batter-runner.

Yes, and you really meant that the ump has to make the call. Other wise there is no difference between a runner, batter/runner and the ump. They are there to make calls during the play. Thank you for clearing that up.

 

[irishmafia]

Yes, and you really meant that the ump has to make the call. Other wise there is no difference between a runner, batter/runner and the ump. They are there to make calls during the play. Thank you for clearing that up.

Yeah....okay.