ASA I made this situation up, but what should the call be

eddieq

eddieq

The Great and Powerful Q
Ok, the 4 base award thread got me thinking. Here is my imaginary situation.

Bottom of 7. Home team is trailing by 3. Bases loaded. 2 outs.

Batter hits a long fly ball to left, but it's clearly a "can of corn" and the left fielder is settled under it. Batter starts toward first in a slow trot and stops and heads toward the dugout when he sees that the left fielder is ready to catch it. Left fielder does a Jose Canseco on it, though and it pops over the fence after hitting him. 4 base award by rule, right? Does the batter-runner stopping and heading toward the dugout negate that even though you're not required to run the bases on a HR or 4 base award?

So, either way, it's ball game, but who wins? Visitors by 3 because the third out with the batter runner being called out or home team by 1 since all score on the 4 base award?
 
NCASAUmp

NCASAUmp

Un-Retired
eddieq said:
Ok, the 4 base award thread got me thinking. Here is my imaginary situation.

Bottom of 7. Home team is trailing by 3. Bases loaded. 2 outs.

Batter hits a long fly ball to left, but it's clearly a "can of corn" and the left fielder is settled under it. Batter starts toward first in a slow trot and stops and heads toward the dugout when he sees that the left fielder is ready to catch it. Left fielder does a Jose Canseco on it, though and it pops over the fence after hitting him. 4 base award by rule, right? Does the batter-runner stopping and heading toward the dugout negate that even though you're not required to run the bases on a HR or 4 base award?

So, either way, it's ball game, but who wins? Visitors by 3 because the third out with the batter runner being called out or home team by 1 since all score on the 4 base award?
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If he "headed toward" the dugout, he's fine. If he stepped INTO the dugout before the catch, that's different.

That's a good one, though. Let me post that a little higher up and see what people think.
 
eddieq

eddieq

The Great and Powerful Q
NCASAUmp said:
If he "headed toward" the dugout, he's fine. If he stepped INTO the dugout before the catch, that's different.

That's a good one, though. Let me post that a little higher up and see what people think.
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Thanks. I'd appreciate knowing what your "UIC" guys would say :)
 
Sonic625

Sonic625

An Admin
Staff member
As long as he does not step into the dead ball area (dugout) or interferes with the defensive player making a play on the ball, the batter runner makes their own base path so her could run around in circles and them run to first if he wanted to :)
With that said if there are any local give up rules in effect that would over rule this call.
 
fitzpats

fitzpats

AKA - The Anti Ringer
Here's my question on this scenario though. If a 4-base award doesn't require bases to be touched (hit and sit), how would the batter/runner be declared out? The Hit and sit rules would essentially create every HR or 4-base award to be an out, correct?
 
NCASAUmp

NCASAUmp

Un-Retired
fitzpats said:
Here's my question on this scenario though. If a 4-base award doesn't require bases to be touched (hit and sit), how would the batter/runner be declared out? The Hit and sit rules would essentially create every HR or 4-base award to be an out, correct?
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The distinction is that the ball was still live when the runner entered dead ball territory.
 
guzzler2209

guzzler2209

The Veteran
Let me complicate it....maybe.

I thought a batter is out if he stops and takes a step back toward the plate while going to first?????? If he turns and goes back toward the 3rd base dugout, by the definition of this rule, he would be out....correct?
 
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irishmafia

Addicted to Softballfans
guzzler2209 said:
Let me complicate it....maybe.

I thought a batter is out if he stops and takes a step back toward the plate while going to first?????? If he turns and goes back toward the 3rd base dugout, by the definition of this rule, he would be out....correct?
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No since that is not the rule
 
guzzler2209

guzzler2209

The Veteran
irishmafia said:
No since that is not the rule
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This was covered in previous threads and I thought Umps stated that this is the rule. Batter going to first is out if he stops and takes a step back toward the plate. Other baserunners no, but batter going to first, yes.
 
BretMan

BretMan

Addicted to Softballfans
Might want to go back and re-read that other thread.

A batter-runner is out if he steps back toward first base to avoid a tag.

You need to have a fielder with possession of the ball in the act of trying to touch the runner to have a tag attempt. Neither of those are present in the play presented.
 
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sac4

Addicted to Softballfans
what about the fact that this is a dead ball out situation . So even if it was ruled an out(but it is not) the other three runs would score on the 4 base error, the inning would be over an the game would be tied. so at the very least he tied the game. You go in to extra innings or end in a tie if you have same lame tie rule.
 
NCASAUmp

NCASAUmp

Un-Retired
sac4 said:
what about the fact that this is a dead ball out situation . So even if it was ruled an out(but it is not) the other three runs would score on the 4 base error, the inning would be over an the game would be tied. so at the very least he tied the game. You go in to extra innings or end in a tie if you have same lame tie rule.
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But in this situation, the ball was still live when the batter-runner entered the dugout.
 
NCASAUmp

NCASAUmp

Un-Retired
I'm going to be completely honest here, guys... The ruling I gave is my gut instinct ruling, but even I'm not 100% convinced that I'm making the right call. As such, I have passed it higher up the chain. We're going to debate this one a bit further and see where it lands.

For those playing the home game, the heart of the situation rests in the very specific definitions of who's who, and when they become such.

Needless to say, in my judgment, this may get a bit messy and would probably bore you to tears. When the chips fall, I'll let you all know.
 
AWall13

AWall13

Addicted to Softballfans
The home team wins only if the base coach is jumping up and down yelling "its gone" even though its a can of corn
 
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sac4

Addicted to Softballfans
The OP said heads towards the dugout not enters the dugout. The call would not be made till after the ball has left the field of play. So would that not make it a dead ball out(if it where called one) so the 3 runs would still score and the batter would be out. Its almost like if he hit a home run had to run the bases misses on then gets called out for the missed base. the other 3 runs would still score.
 
NCASAUmp

NCASAUmp

Un-Retired
sac4 said:
The OP said heads towards the dugout not enters the dugout. The call would not be made till after the ball has left the field of play. So would that not make it a dead ball out(if it where called one) so the 3 runs would still score and the batter would be out. Its almost like if he hit a home run had to run the bases misses on then gets called out for the missed base. the other 3 runs would still score.
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Even if the batter-runner DID enter the dugout in this scenario, the ball would not become dead.
 
S

sac4

Addicted to Softballfans
NCASAUmp when the ball leave the field of play off the OF head is that not a dead ball?
 
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