Any infield fly rule question

[jwashko9]

I have a question involving the infield fly rule. I understand the ruling when it comes to "normal" situations. I have a couple of odd scenarios that are based on the same general question that I would like some help with. I understand the whole point of the infield fly rule is to prevent the defense from turning an easy double play by deceiving the runners. And I also know that the pop-up doesn't even have to be caught on the dirt as long as its an infielder catching an umpire's discression "normal" or "easy" play. (I know that wording isn't 100% accurate). What happens if the defense is playing 5 man and the typical 5th infielder isn't playing on the dirt? What if he's starting 10' behind the 2nd base bag? 10' behind short stop? What if the left fielder is playing really shallow because maybe its a co-ed game or a slap lefty? I guess my basic question is two parts:
A) does the person that is "camped" under the ball to make the easy play have to be an infielder or can it be called if an outfielder looks to be deceiving the runners, and
B) if it does have to be an infielder, what designates him an infielder in black and white terms - if there is anything like that.

Thanks and have fun,

 

[irishmafia]

I have a question involving the infield fly rule. I understand the ruling when it comes to "normal" situations. I have a couple of odd scenarios that are based on the same general question that I would like some help with. I understand the whole point of the infield fly rule is to prevent the defense from turning an easy double play by deceiving the runners. And I also know that the pop-up doesn't even have to be caught on the dirt as long as its an infielder catching an umpire's discression "normal" or "easy" play. (I know that wording isn't 100% accurate). What happens if the defense is playing 5 man and the typical 5th infielder isn't playing on the dirt? What if he's starting 10' behind the 2nd base bag? 10' behind short stop? What if the left fielder is playing really shallow because maybe its a co-ed game or a slap lefty? I guess my basic question is two parts:
A) does the person that is "camped" under the ball to make the easy play have to be an infielder or can it be called if an outfielder looks to be deceiving the runners, and
B) if it does have to be an infielder, what designates him an infielder in black and white terms - if there is anything like that.

Thanks and have fun,

Did you read the sticky at the top of the page?

 

[NCASAUmp]

You know, I looked through the rulebooks for ASA, ISA, NSA, USSSA, SSUSA, PONY and ISF. Only ASA bothers to include "infielder" in their list of definitions.

Here's how ASA defines "Infielder:"

A fielder who defends the area of the field around first, second, third or shortstop areas.

You'll see that it says "area," and doesn't give any limitations on how far or close that player must be to that location. The definition, which is an actual rule, gives the defense a lot of leeway to move and adjust on the field, and those players are still considered infielders if they are defending the areas around 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or shortstop.

So, in the umpire's judgment, if another fielder comes in close enough to be considered to be defending the areas around 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or shortstop, then that person is also considered an infielder.

Does that make sense?

 

[EsqUmp]

You know, I looked through the rulebooks for ASA, ISA, NSA, USSSA, SSUSA, PONY and ISF. Only ASA bothers to include "infielder" in their list of definitions.

NCAA does as well.

 

[Gulf Coast Blue]

NCAA does as well.

NCAA also has the most complex and confusing rulebook as well. I would not be surprised to to see a definition for "dirt" in their book.........

Joel

 

[SevenBizzos]

It's "ordinary effort" by an infielder to make the catch. Them catching it is not a requirement and would be difficult to make such a rule.

NCASA ump gives you an example of what an "infielder" is. You'd have to agree that 99% of the time you (and the umpires) can tell who the infielders are.

 

[jwashko9]

I understand and agree with all of that. Thank you. We just got to discussing how people would react to calling an infield fly rule on an outfielder camped just outside of the dirt-and what the rulings and reactions would be. Thanks again.

 

[BretMan]

What happens if the defense is playing 5 man and the typical 5th infielder isn't playing on the dirt? What if he's starting 10' behind the 2nd base bag?

Ten feet behind second base? What is that...about three "giant steps"? I would consider that as "defending the area around second base". Just the regular infielders will often play deeper than that.

And please...forget about the player being on "the dirt" or "the grass" as having any bearing on the infield fly rule. The rule doesn't delineate the infield and outfield like that.

There is one set of fields around here (multi-purpose fields for several levels of baseball and softball) where the grass starts about 35 feet behind second base. There are some other fields (older fields, not as well maintained) where the grass starts maybe 5 feet behind second base. You can see how defining the infield and outfield by where the dirt ends/ grass starts can be pretty meaningless.

 

[irishmafia]

I understand and agree with all of that. Thank you. We just got to discussing how people would react to calling an infield fly rule on an outfielder camped just outside of the dirt-and what the rulings and reactions would be. Thanks again.

Apparently you don't understand or you would stop referring to the dirt as if it has any bearing, it doesn't

I've worked games where the infielders are 20+ feet beyond the baseline. I could turn around and talk the RF in a whisper and he would hear me.

An infielder is the player that covers the infield, the outfielders cover the rest. Everyone other than the pitcher and catcher could literally be infielders on a play depending on their position at the time of the pitch.

 

[baldgriff]

Lets put it this way - if an OF'er was camped close to the infield on a pop up, I would expect that the IF'er would have had an easier time and would of been able to make the play with reasonable effort. So the fact that the OF'er is there is irrelevant. It's still Infield Fly - because the IF'er can make the play with reasonable effort.

 

[jwashko9]

I was never under the belief that the dirt/grass had any bearing on the rule. Nor did I think a standard distance from a bag in feet would be in the rule. I was simply throwing a few numbers in the quote to try and allow someone better understanding into what I am asking. The main question in a more simple wording is differentiation of an infielder and an outfielder when it comes to an infield fly rule being called and any weird rule associated with this topic. But from everyones input, I believe I have an answer to my question. I realize it's a hypothetical situation that probably would never come into play, but I thought I'd try to figure it out. Thanks again.