Any Intentionally dropped ball?
- Thread starter Arrgh
- Start date
irishmafia
Addicted to Softballfans
Depends on the rule set and what it defines as a IDB
With less than 2 force outs on base, if the fielder touched the ball before it hit the ground and in the opinion of the umpire he intentionally dropped it then he can call an out/dead ball. There are different interpretations out there about if the ball hits inside the glove/the outside of the glove etc, but it's pretty much always covered by the old "in the umpires discretion" so if he thinks you dropped it on purpose he can call it.
However, if the ball hits the ground without being touched by any fielder at all then it is a live ball and can be played as such. So an infielder can back up a bit and let the ball hit the ground first and then pick it up and play it. Not really ever going to happen that way on a line drive, but on a high fly ball it could. That is why you always run it out as a batter if there's no infield fly rule in effect!
However, if the ball hits the ground without being touched by any fielder at all then it is a live ball and can be played as such. So an infielder can back up a bit and let the ball hit the ground first and then pick it up and play it. Not really ever going to happen that way on a line drive, but on a high fly ball it could. That is why you always run it out as a batter if there's no infield fly rule in effect!
It's a church co-ed rec league. We like to keep it recreational and fun, and don't want unsportsmanlike behaviour. Last year a team played aggressively, including blatantly intentionally dropped balls to get double plays. So we are discussing what to put in the rules to deal with this.
Calling dead ball and out, does make it a simpler rule, but it also gives the defense an out without making any play, and no penalty for the behaviour.
One idea discussed was to call delayed dead ball, let the plays go through, then negate the leading out if out(s) were made. That's to make sure the team doing the intentional drop does not gain something.
Calling dead ball and out, does make it a simpler rule, but it also gives the defense an out without making any play, and no penalty for the behaviour.
One idea discussed was to call delayed dead ball, let the plays go through, then negate the leading out if out(s) were made. That's to make sure the team doing the intentional drop does not gain something.
Last edited:
etnstudios
Addicted to Softballfans
if you're looking at putting something extra in the league rules, just put in that the umpire can toss anyone at his discretion for being an *******
Joe500
Starting Player
I agree with AH23. A batted ball cannot be considered the "intentional drop" unless it first satisfies the definition of a catch. USSSA runner(s) on 1B, 1B & 2B, 1B, 2B & 3B, OR 1B & 3B with less than 2 outs; ball is dead immediately, the batter is out and all base runners return to the base occupied at the time of the pitch.
blakcherry329
Well-Known Member
Doesn't "guiding the ball to the ground" stop the momentum? If it's a pop up and the fielder is underneath the ball, if it touches his/her glove, it's going to get called an out, 9 times out of 10. The only way to get around that is to take the chance and let it drop to the ground before touching it, imo.
AH23
Addicted to Softballfans
No, "guiding the ball" doesn't "Stop" the ball, it slows it down but doesn't stop it. Is it a BS move? Yes. But that's the rule. Remember, easy way to avoid the double play is having the batter run to 1B.
blakcherry329
Well-Known Member
Ok, it may not stop the ball, but it changes the momentum and most umps will call BS and the out.
hitless45
Addicted to Softballfans
Intentionally letting a ball hit the ground to help turn a double play is a douche move in a church/rec league imo.. A soft line drive ehh maybe but a popup that a fielder is camped under (NO) again especially in this type of league (church/rec/fun) tourney play if/where allowed is all good..
Most of our umps will call (bs))dead ball forced runner gets a base batter gets his, they do it to avoid potential unnecessary injuries..
Most of our umps will call (bs))dead ball forced runner gets a base batter gets his, they do it to avoid potential unnecessary injuries..
irishmafia
Addicted to Softballfans
The only thing bush about it is the batter's failure to get a clean base hit. Otherwise, it is heads-up ball. If you don't like it, play better.
Dogue
Evil Genius
It's a co-ed church league...there are some unwritten rules you play by; don't throw to 1st from outfield, don't play full speed to get a young kid out if you're winning, and don't intentionally drop the ball to turn 2. Most umps know the difference and will just call it a caught ball anyway so no big deal.
AH23
Addicted to Softballfans
SMH, the guys that "liked" Dogue's post above would be the same guys pitching a fit if the same situation happened in their men's league game. Rules are the rules guys. There is NO rule that says if the umpire knows better to just call it a caught ball. I've been playing ball for over 40 years. Used to play a heavy competitive tourney schedule. I know the game. And I'm telling you, I'm not bailing out the lazy preacher who doesn't think he needs to jog to 1B. Does it suck when the choir leader gets thrown out from RF? Yep, but maybe, if they're that slow, they should hit to left.
The one's I'd like to call out are the E tourney players in church league who hit the line drive to the girl at 2B or RF and then bust ass around the bases and act like they've won the World Series for their inside the park HR. But I can't call them out because I know better, because there isn't a rule that says I can.
The one's I'd like to call out are the E tourney players in church league who hit the line drive to the girl at 2B or RF and then bust ass around the bases and act like they've won the World Series for their inside the park HR. But I can't call them out because I know better, because there isn't a rule that says I can.
blakcherry329
Well-Known Member
It's not about "rules are rules". It's about making a mockery of the game. And if the the runner runs, the point is moo(Joey Tribiani
), and the fielder will catch the ball. All I'm saying is umps will call bs if you don't sell it well enough. More often than not, if you are camped under it and it hits your glove, as you guide it to the ground, it will be called an out. I've played just as long as you have and it's not about bailing out a lazy player. I'm just telling you what I've witnessed. You can definitely call someone an A-hole for hitting at girls that aren't very good or stuff like that. Why not? There's no rule but they are DBags, anyway.
blakcherry329
Well-Known Member
That's what the umps say. I don't care. If the runner doesn't run he deserves to get doubled up.
Last edited:
NCASAUmp
Un-Retired
Any umpire who starts "citing" the "mockery of the game rule" is full of **** 99.999% of the time. Whenever you hear an umpire say that, be prepared to tell them you're playing under protest, because chances are high they're making up a ruling that doesn't exist in the rules.
As others said before, it's going to depend on which ruleset you're playing under. In USA Softball, the ball must be legally caught, then immediately dropped for it to be declared an intentionally dropped ball. In USSSA, the ball must only hit the pocket of the glove (no mention of it being caught). In NSA, it must be caught, or that the fielder must "let it fall," whatever that means.
irishmafia
Addicted to Softballfans
It's not about "rules are rules". It's about making a mockery of the game. And if the the runner runs, the point is moo(Joey Tribiani
You can definitely call someone an A-hole for hitting at girls that aren't very good or stuff like that. Why not? There's no rule but they are DBags, anyway.
Talk about bull****.......this qualifies
irishmafia
Addicted to Softballfans
Not a real umpire
EAJuggalo
Addicted to Softballfans
Do you have a rule cite the USSSA interpretation? I've always been told that guiding it to the ground, hitting it down with a glove or just letting it drop can be ruled as an intentional drop.
NCASAUmp
Un-Retired
Sorry for the delayed response. I took a new job, and can't surf the forums like I used to during working hours.
I seem to remember either a case play or a test question from USSSA that specifically referenced the ball hitting the pocket of the glove. It's been a while, but maybe I can find it.
But allow me to be blunt here. It's been my experience that USSSA tends to make **** up as they go. Talk with one UIC, you get told one thing. Talk with another UIC, get told another. Ask a question to their national rules interpreter, and the answer you get completely flies in the face of what's written in the book, plain as day, right there in black and white.
So even if I do find the citation, don't count on it sticking. I'm sure that if it happens during Worlds and some key team fusses loudly enough, whoever's in charge will make something up just to keep them playing U-Trip.