Any Intentionally dropped ball?

R

RNRPLZ

Member
Arrgh said:
It's a church co-ed rec league. We like to keep it recreational and fun, and don't want unsportsmanlike behaviour. Last year a team played aggressively, including blatantly intentionally dropped balls to get double plays. So we are discussing what to put in the rules to deal with this.

Calling dead ball and out, does make it a simpler rule, but it also gives the defense an out without making any play, and no penalty for the behaviour.

One idea discussed was to call delayed dead ball, let the plays go through, then negate the leading out if out(s) were made. That's to make sure the team doing the intentional drop does not gain something.
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It has nothing to do with any association I would think, but USA/ASA intentionality dropping a ball in order to turn a double play, if it was blankly a dropped ball. Batter is out runners stay in their position. Second offense the unsportsmanlike rule would be called and the player committing the act would be ejected from the game. It don’t have to be any local league rule. If the same team makes this a habit, a few ejections and forfeits will end it rather quickly.
 
AH23

AH23

Addicted to Softballfans
RNRPLZ said:
It has nothing to do with any association I would think, but USA/ASA intentionality dropping a ball in order to turn a double play, if it was blankly a dropped ball. Batter is out runners stay in their position. Second offense the unsportsmanlike rule would be called and the player committing the act would be ejected from the game. It don’t have to be any local league rule. If the same team makes this a habit, a few ejections and forfeits will end it rather quickly.
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Please don't make **** up. There is NO RULE EFFECT for an ejection for an intentionally dropped ball first, second, or fifth offense. USA is 8.2.K and Rule supplement 30.
 
JStout863

JStout863

Softball is Dumb
USSSA - Rule 7, Sec 2.H

The batter is OUT if:
He hits a fair fly ball or line drive that an infielder intentionally drops, with a runner on first, runner on first and second, first, second and third, or on first and third with less than two outs.
NOTE: A trapped ball that hits the ground is never ruled intentionally dropped.
EFFECT Sec. 2. H.
The umpire shall immediately call the batter out (in a forceful manner) and the ball is dead.
 
BretMan

BretMan

Addicted to Softballfans
The association DOES NOT matter as far as when the rule applies (bases occupied and number of outs), or the penalty if it happens (dead ball, batter out, runners return). That part is universal to all softball and baseball rule sets.

The association DOES matter when it comes to how they each define what constitutes an intentionally dropped ball. Some say that the ball must first be caught before it can be considered as dropped. Others say that the ball can't be manipulated to the ground in any way, such as letting the ball hit the back of the glove.

USA softball is one of those that say the ball must first be caught before it can be dropped. But, if you check the plays and clarifications published on their website, they have a case play where the fielder "lets the ball enter the pocket of his glove" then drop to the ground. Hmmm...that doesn't satisfy the definition of a catch...but they call it an intentional drop anyway.
 
EAJuggalo

EAJuggalo

Addicted to Softballfans
NCASAUmp said:
Sorry for the delayed response. I took a new job, and can't surf the forums like I used to during working hours.

I seem to remember either a case play or a test question from USSSA that specifically referenced the ball hitting the pocket of the glove. It's been a while, but maybe I can find it.

But allow me to be blunt here. It's been my experience that USSSA tends to make **** up as they go. Talk with one UIC, you get told one thing. Talk with another UIC, get told another. Ask a question to their national rules interpreter, and the answer you get completely flies in the face of what's written in the book, plain as day, right there in black and white.

So even if I do find the citation, don't count on it sticking. I'm sure that if it happens during Worlds and some key team fusses loudly enough, whoever's in charge will make something up just to keep them playing U-Trip.
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Don't I know it. Kind of funny to see that post from 6 years ago when I first started, I have since caught that same UIC giving me bad information, even to the point of telling me that there was not OE at E Nationals last year. I am attending a National Rules clinic this saturday with the National UIC. I believe he will cover this as well, if not I'll ask. I was told a rule interpretation last year by two Conference umpires that directly contradicts what is written in the book. I hope to get some clarification on a few of these.
 
NCASAUmp

NCASAUmp

Un-Retired
And sometimes, some of the finer points of the rules can be subject to interpretation. And sometimes, one UIC's opinion may differ from that of another UIC.

But when rules are written in black and white with no room for interpretation, it behooves the UIC to at consistently apply these rulings as written when called upon. Otherwise, what's the friggin' point?
 
EAJuggalo

EAJuggalo

Addicted to Softballfans
Direct from the National UIC. The ball has to hit the glove to be considered intentionally dropped. It doesn't have to be caught, it can be batted or directed, but it must be touched.
 
BretMan

BretMan

Addicted to Softballfans
The most common example in case plays that I've seen is if a fielder lets the ball hit the back of his glove to knock the ball to the ground. For the majority of rule sets, this would be ruled as an intentionally dropped ball.

In USA softball it would not be, since the ball wasn't first caught (or, if you believe their website, the ball didn't hit the pocket of the glove).
 
ilyk2win

ilyk2win

Addicted to Softballfans
EAJuggalo said:
Direct from the National UIC. The ball has to hit the glove to be considered intentionally dropped. It doesn't have to be caught, it can be batted or directed, but it must be touched.
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BretMan said:
The most common example in case plays that I've seen is if a fielder lets the ball hit the back of his glove to knock the ball to the ground. For the majority of rule sets, this would be ruled as an intentionally dropped ball.

In USA softball it would not be, since the ball wasn't first caught (or, if you believe their website, the ball didn't hit the pocket of the glove).
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Are these 2 statements contradicting each other? As a new USA umpire, I want to make sure I have this call correct as I see it happen around here more than I care to.
 
A

A Salt Weapon

Starting Player
I do this every chance I have, it's part of the game in my opinion. Don't want to get doubled up? Don't hit a liner to me at SS, I will let it hit the back of the mitt every single time and turn it. I'll do it at pitcher in coed too.
 
BretMan

BretMan

Addicted to Softballfans
ilyk2win said:
Are these 2 statements contradicting each other? As a new USA umpire, I want to make sure I have this call correct as I see it happen around here more than I care to.
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As I noted in my first post, different sanctioning bodies have different definitions of a dropped ball. Some say it has to be caught first, others don't.
 
ilyk2win

ilyk2win

Addicted to Softballfans
BretMan said:
As I noted in my first post, different sanctioning bodies have different definitions of a dropped ball. Some say it has to be caught first, others don't.
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Yeah Joker clarified for me. I thought you were both USA. Thank you!
 
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