AydenB00
The Rookie
yes common sense would say that, BUT what is the actual data. great ,move it back 3 feet and a ball coming at you 90mph, how much movement can the body make?
Mandatory helmets for pitchers after player dies
- Thread starter bndawgs
- Start date
yes common sense would say that, BUT what is the actual data. great ,move it back 3 feet and a ball coming at you 90mph, how much movement can the body make?
AydenB00
The Rookie
um, hitting HRs has absolutely nothin to do with this, I pitched back in the day of hard rocks and when the ultra came out. so pitching today doesn't bother me using classic Ms. every body part is different and isn't gonna matter what ball you hit. ive seen a lot of people get hurt from busted out teeth at third, stiches in the head FROM A THROWN BALL, guy knocked completely out from a fly ball...oh I was hittin HRs back in 92 with my Easton relex
EdFred
every day I'm shovelin'
I ran the numbers on page 3. 3-5 feet wont make a difference. 15' might.
AydenB00
The Rookie
I never once said propose a change, I'm not the one complaining about it
AydenB00
The Rookie
really 15 ft, that's NOT even common sense, just stand on second base then or hell just play 5 man and let everyone use a tee
EdFred
every day I'm shovelin'
Do the math.
At 132 fps (90mph) how far back do you think you need to be to safe? 53 feet back gets you a whopping .023 seconds extra of reaction time vs 50 feet.
Joker
Well-Known Member
you're engaging with someone who has no intention of making a valid point
AydenB00
The Rookie
I already made my valid point , idiot. theres a risk and always will be...... bottom line
AydenB00
The Rookie
you do realize that is twice as fast as the blink of an eye,, but carry on ... edit 100 times faster
WarHorse
Star Player
I don't think moving the mound or fences will change much, personally. I also firmly believe that if it goes to 100% unlimited arc, ASA will lose significant popularity and it's just a "feel good" safety net because we all know a few guys who can still be lethal with a 40' arc pitch.
The other hand here is that every sport has risks. Hunting, fishing, soccer, all of them. At what point do we pass the burden of safety off to those playing the sport rather than the orgs, companies, and manufacturers supporting it? I've given this more thought, and though the death of a friend is a tragedy, it's hardly reason to sound the alarm and take to the streets, regardless of how I've felt in this thread. A little more reflection and perspective on it makes me really think mountains are being made of molehills here.
At most I'd like to see literature provided by the leagues at recommendation of the organizations like ASA and USSSA saying "this sport is dangerous, be warned, for safety tips visit www.safetywebsitetips.com/ and know your risks!"
The other hand here is that every sport has risks. Hunting, fishing, soccer, all of them. At what point do we pass the burden of safety off to those playing the sport rather than the orgs, companies, and manufacturers supporting it? I've given this more thought, and though the death of a friend is a tragedy, it's hardly reason to sound the alarm and take to the streets, regardless of how I've felt in this thread. A little more reflection and perspective on it makes me really think mountains are being made of molehills here.
At most I'd like to see literature provided by the leagues at recommendation of the organizations like ASA and USSSA saying "this sport is dangerous, be warned, for safety tips visit www.safetywebsitetips.com/ and know your risks!"
tonys1
Moderator
The manufacturers are just appeasing the masses, whatever sells. Baseball's picking up here in Canada again, I see 130lbs clowns doing the Sammy Sosa hop because they hit a 290 foot shot with a stupid hot bat, anyone talking about hitting anything less than 350 feet is ridiculed here, everyone is powerlifting, eating proteins, or let's post another douchebag hitting middle thread and put our nuts on the table to laugh at the pathetic losers who suck and have no skills because they think it's not cool to aim for pitcher.
WarHorse
Star Player
ONE guy died. More people die taking a **** in a week than die playing softball in a year. What the **** is wrong with you?
Thinking more about it just makes me feel like this is sensationalist nonsense. All sports have risks. All of them. Knee jerk says "make this safer!!!" but reality says it's actually pretty safe.
Joker
Well-Known Member
one is one too many. you deserve a special place in hell
AydenB00
The Rookie
a guy died last night getting hit by a car, gee if they only would make cars softer
EdFred
every day I'm shovelin'
Yes I do realize that. You do realize I was using sarcasm when I used the term whopping, but carry on....
If you reduce the exit velocity to say 70mph off the bat from 90 by deadening the bats you now get 0.487 seconds of reaction time at 50 feet and you don't have to move the mound at all. You and I both know when we started playing back in the early 90s the ball was not moving as fast as it is now off the bats.
If it were the first or last you'd have a point. If you weren't playing in 2002 you might not understand.
AydenB00
The Rookie
so you don't think rocks and swingin ultras, og synergys were not coming off as hard as they are now....u gotta be crazy
WarHorse
Star Player
With smaller infields, too. A shaved bat with a 40/400 ball and we're talking about how unsafe regulation bats are with 52's. Lets be real here because my knee jerk was "yeah the sport is unsafe" but that's a statement that is true about every sport, and it's easy to talk about how to be a safety sally but when you look at how many people play softball and how many injuries you really here about, it's mostly running and sliding injuries over actually being blasted by a ball. Do people shoot middle and does that ball travel quickly with major potential for damage? Yes, it does. Just like I can trip and fall down a flight of stairs with major damage potential, too. Or take a soccer ball to the temple. Or get tackled improperly in football.
Softball has become a much safer sport over the years but for some people it's not enough. Those are the people that really should never leave the house. The world is a dangerous place, and the more I think about it, the more I realize just how little injury there is in softball. Wear a mask while pitching? Yes, it just makes sense. Legislate that be a requirement to pitch? I disagree, mostly because the legislation will never end. Change the sport too much and you won't have anyone left to play with.
The death of a friend always sucks, but knee jerk reactions are a really poor way to cope with that loss.
Oh, and f you Joker, you've done less for anyone here than I've ever seen and I'd bet your batting average in dollars (so around 15 cents) that you're just as much of a waste of oxygen in real life as you are of electricity and data storage online. I'd be really surprised if you can even list something you've done to better someone else, and be extra surprised if that betterment came at any risk to your own safety. Soyboy trash.
May be a view from some one who has been hit in the head would be educational. ASA, 52/300, back peddle 3-5 ft, hold glove right at my neck/ chin area. They said the sound of ball hitting my Worth helmet was almost at the same time of the sound coming off the bat. I saw the ball 3 ft from me - would of hit me in left eye. Ball hit face mask and rocked my head back, ball landed in right field. It sounds like a gun going off in your helmet. Result? Worth helmet did it's job. Nothing bent or cracked. I've used a worth helmet since they first came out.
Any questions?
Any questions?
TWmccoy
3DX Connoisseur
That's a stupid ball to hit on that small a field. Whomever runs that league must not be the sharpest tool in the shed..
BTW, wood bats and .52 300s is actually fun. The balls will fly too. I played a tourny on fields that were slightly over 300' and there were HRs being hit. Not tons of them, but the legit power hitters were putting them out.
I had read on this post about what should or could be done to protect the pitcher, anything from screens to using 52/300 balls to lowering the performance of the bats, but I haven't seen one post stating that as player I refuse to hit with this bat because I could injure the pitcher.
TWmccoy
3DX Connoisseur
Uh, what? Any bat made today is a lightning rod. Pitchers can be injured with Eastons, Mikens, Worths, you name it. The bat used in this case was likely a factor, but that doesn't mean there aren't 50,000 other bats as hot or hotter being used in softball leagues and tournaments every day of the year.
My point is, you can't really single 1 specific bat out here. Its the bats in general that are too hot.
I pitch in an unlimited arc ASA league. I would absolutely agree the middle gets hit more with higher arc. I’m one of the few who can actually land the high arc consistently and it gets hit to me very often. I got smoked on the shin last May and still have a bruise. I’m definitely wearing a Worth Mask this year based on this tragedy.
ImminentDanger
Up and Over
First - My condolences to the family and friends of the pitcher who died - Especially his new bride - The death of a loved one is always devastating and at a young age, always a tragedy... The effect on loved ones would be no different if he lost his life in a car accident or skiing accident or boating accident... The end result is the same...
Talking about leagues here (Tournaments are much more cutthroat but many of the same issues & possible solutions would apply - But getting associations to change their standards is much harder than changing the local league regulations.)
Things that CAN be done without destroying the basic elements of the game:
I think it has been proven that the .52 ball is safer for the entire infield & pitchers in particular - Mandating the .52 ball in all leagues is less destructive of the basic elements of the game than mandating pitching screens...
Mandating a 6' pitcher's box, behind the 50' pitching plate, is fundamentally better than requiring a pitcher to 'toe the rubber' and without destroying the basic elements of the game (as would be the case with mandating pitching screens)... You can minimize the benefit if you like, but I personally know that those extra 6' are especially critical and effective...
A short side trip: When a ball is hit directly at your face, it is difficult for your brain to perceive the incoming danger. The ball appears to stand still, but simply gets bigger (as it approaches your face). I would bet that the brain of most pitchers do not pickup the 'in your face' hit until the ball has already travelled 50% of the distance to them, even though subconsciously, a properly prepared pitcher (glove at chest high) is already beginning the move of the glove. That leaves 25' (to the pitching rubber) for the pitcher to move their glove to the RIGHT SPOT to protect their face and make a play... THAT MEANS that the extra 6' behind the pitching rubber provides an increase of almost 25% more critical reaction time from the point of realization until impact... THOSE 6' ARE BENEFICIAL...
ETA: I now see that ASA has extended the pitching box (in 2017) to 10' behind the pitching rubber for Senior Softball - That is great! It should be implemnted at all levels and in all associations - Especially pushed for by pitchers in all leagues!
Changing the maximum arc back to the 12' limit, as previously played, would provide the pitcher (especially from 6' farther back) with more opportunity to alter their pitches (affecting the ability of an average/poor batter to deliberately hit middle) - without destroying the basic elements of the game...
Umpires forcing batters to remain 'in the box' would help minimize the effect of current batters who back out of (or never are in) the batter's box in order so they can 'hit middle' on an inside pitch - without destroying the basic elements of the game...
Any pitcher who perceives themselves unable to sufficiently react to protect themselves from a 'head shot' should CHOOSE to wear a helmet or, at minimum, a face mask - Mandating pitching helmets, with the option for the pitcher to opt out, would provide no additional actual protection to what they can already choose, but it might allow those needing it to 'save face' (pun intended) to go ahead and wear the helmet/mask that they should --- This (and other protection) can happen without destroying the basic elements of the game (except, perhaps, for the pitcher themselves)...
So there are things that can be done WITHOUT DESTROYING the basic elements of the game...
Every change is going to have some effect on the game - but each of these would be better protecting the pitcher - which should be the point of the change, which makes those changes a 'relatively' minor cost to the basic elements of the game in order to achieve the more important element of pitcher safety...
Yes - batters will be at a greater disadvantage than without these changes - but you can't alter the risk to pitchers without affecting some parts of the game - These suggested changes are the least damaging to the basic elements of the game...
Caveat: You cannot take all the risk to pitchers out of the game without significant damage to the basic elements of the game. Yes, good hitters are always going to be able to deliberately 'hit middle'. Yes, there are always going to be sandbaggers that pose a risk to pitchers with less capable defensive skills.
As already seen, it's going to be hard to put the 'bat saber' back into the genie bottle... But leagues can, relatively easily, implement the benefits listed above regarding pitcher safety...
If you ARE a pitcher, read the link below:
_...__..._
(@)-(@) - For Pitcher Self-Protection, see this Thread: Safety Practices When Pitching
\ .. ^ .. /
...
Talking about leagues here (Tournaments are much more cutthroat but many of the same issues & possible solutions would apply - But getting associations to change their standards is much harder than changing the local league regulations.)
Things that CAN be done without destroying the basic elements of the game:
I think it has been proven that the .52 ball is safer for the entire infield & pitchers in particular - Mandating the .52 ball in all leagues is less destructive of the basic elements of the game than mandating pitching screens...
Mandating a 6' pitcher's box, behind the 50' pitching plate, is fundamentally better than requiring a pitcher to 'toe the rubber' and without destroying the basic elements of the game (as would be the case with mandating pitching screens)... You can minimize the benefit if you like, but I personally know that those extra 6' are especially critical and effective...
A short side trip: When a ball is hit directly at your face, it is difficult for your brain to perceive the incoming danger. The ball appears to stand still, but simply gets bigger (as it approaches your face). I would bet that the brain of most pitchers do not pickup the 'in your face' hit until the ball has already travelled 50% of the distance to them, even though subconsciously, a properly prepared pitcher (glove at chest high) is already beginning the move of the glove. That leaves 25' (to the pitching rubber) for the pitcher to move their glove to the RIGHT SPOT to protect their face and make a play... THAT MEANS that the extra 6' behind the pitching rubber provides an increase of almost 25% more critical reaction time from the point of realization until impact... THOSE 6' ARE BENEFICIAL...
ETA: I now see that ASA has extended the pitching box (in 2017) to 10' behind the pitching rubber for Senior Softball - That is great! It should be implemnted at all levels and in all associations - Especially pushed for by pitchers in all leagues!
Changing the maximum arc back to the 12' limit, as previously played, would provide the pitcher (especially from 6' farther back) with more opportunity to alter their pitches (affecting the ability of an average/poor batter to deliberately hit middle) - without destroying the basic elements of the game...
Umpires forcing batters to remain 'in the box' would help minimize the effect of current batters who back out of (or never are in) the batter's box in order so they can 'hit middle' on an inside pitch - without destroying the basic elements of the game...
Any pitcher who perceives themselves unable to sufficiently react to protect themselves from a 'head shot' should CHOOSE to wear a helmet or, at minimum, a face mask - Mandating pitching helmets, with the option for the pitcher to opt out, would provide no additional actual protection to what they can already choose, but it might allow those needing it to 'save face' (pun intended) to go ahead and wear the helmet/mask that they should --- This (and other protection) can happen without destroying the basic elements of the game (except, perhaps, for the pitcher themselves)...
So there are things that can be done WITHOUT DESTROYING the basic elements of the game...
Every change is going to have some effect on the game - but each of these would be better protecting the pitcher - which should be the point of the change, which makes those changes a 'relatively' minor cost to the basic elements of the game in order to achieve the more important element of pitcher safety...
Yes - batters will be at a greater disadvantage than without these changes - but you can't alter the risk to pitchers without affecting some parts of the game - These suggested changes are the least damaging to the basic elements of the game...
Caveat: You cannot take all the risk to pitchers out of the game without significant damage to the basic elements of the game. Yes, good hitters are always going to be able to deliberately 'hit middle'. Yes, there are always going to be sandbaggers that pose a risk to pitchers with less capable defensive skills.
As already seen, it's going to be hard to put the 'bat saber' back into the genie bottle... But leagues can, relatively easily, implement the benefits listed above regarding pitcher safety...
If you ARE a pitcher, read the link below:
_...__..._
(@)-(@) - For Pitcher Self-Protection, see this Thread: Safety Practices When Pitching
\ .. ^ .. /
...
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4xtra
Player/Coach
ok
we get your point but you are minimizing the issue at hand.
This young man was out having fun and lost his life over a freak accident that we all wish on NO ONE.....
Seriously you need to stop making useless points on a serious issue...
This was a messed up situation and you are making it WORSE with silly azz points...
STOP IT..and sit your azz down somewhere
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EdFred
every day I'm shovelin'
In the early 90s we were swinging 34+ ounce aluminum, not ultras and synergies
AydenB00
The Rookie
I never said the early 90s I was swingin that, it was TPS and Easton 28 oz. I actually tried to swing one of those steeles 36oz logs, just ridiculous to swing